*This is my response to Catholic #1 and his views. Enjoy.

Catholic #1: Hislop has long been rendered obsolete and Chick, well, what can you say about that.

Response: I dont consider Hislop and Jack Chick obsolete at all. Why do many people dislike Jack Chick? Its because hes been a soul winner for decades and never backed down from exposing the many Catholic superstitions that plague their religion like a virus.

Hislop conclusively proved that many of the infrastructures of the Catholic Church like the Papacy, nuns, mitre, mass, and other things have origins from the Mystery Religions of Egypt and Babylon not from the Bible. Jack Chick has proven to be a soul-winner for Christ and shown great exposes about Mormonism, Catholicism, Freemasonry, Jehovah Witnesses, Evolution, and Bible preservation for decades. Those things and what Hislop wrote are relevant today and are never obsolete.

Catholic #1: For info about chick and Hislop, look to catholic.com for their essays on them.

Response: Sorry, I rather look at www.piney.com/HislopTOC1.html and www.chick.com and see what both men have to say, not distortions. Chick have opposed Freemasonry, JWs, Islam, etc. and that should be commended. His opposition to the religion on Catholicism is founded on Scripture.

Catholic #1: Either/or arguments are a hallmark of Protestantism, though Jesus stated he was the foundation, yet we see in Rev ther are 12 foundations. The saints in heaven share in Jesus. Jesus is the head, we are his body, working together. Honoring Mary is the same as Jesus, as Jesus was a good Jew following the 10 commandments perfectly. Paul stated he suffered for the body, "lacking in Christ's iflictions" Is he saying Jesus didnt do enough? NO! he joins himself to Christ, as we all should do.

Response: This is a classic case of distortion. The Bible says that Christ is the foundation and the chief corner stone plus the Rock period (1 Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:20, Romans 9:33, 1 Corinthians 10:4). The 12 foundations in Revelations refer to the New city of Jerusalem, not to the real and total indestructible foundation and Rock of the Lord Jesus Christ. Nice tactic in distorting the Scriptures to suit your agenda. I agree that the saints in Heaven live with Jesus and that Jesus is the head of the Church and believers are the body working together. On the other hand, there is no scriptural proof of a Pope, nuns, priests being a small number when God established the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:5, 1 Peter 2:9).

The Lord Jesus Christ is our only High Priest (Hebrews 7:26). There is nothing wrong with Honoring Mary, but I honor all believers equally not just Mary. Mary is a fallible, sinful woman since the Bible says that all men sinned. If you deny that all men have sinned before, you call the Bible a liar. The Catholic religion believes in venerating Mary and many Catholic documents cite Marian worship and some document classify Mary as a co-Mediatrix.

The Bible Says that Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God and man plus we arent to worship nothing but God (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 12:24, Exodus 34:14). It isnt necessarily for veneration since we respect Mary, but Christ should be our majority for all veneration and honor should be given to all believers (which makes up Mary) equally. Christ was God in the flesh and called Mary woman. I have no problem with man suffering problems after salvation, but suffering is never redemptive. Only God Almighty can redeem us by nothing of ourselves. There is nothing wrong with joining with Jesus Christ, but not following false doctrines like the existence of a Pope, nuns, scapular, rosary beads with repetitive prayer violating Gods word (Matthew 6:7), etc.

Catholic #1: It is not either/or.

Response: There is context in scripture and God said choose heaven or choose Hell. There is an either or in life.

Catholic #1: Any one that seriously believes in Chick, is rather sacary as all his sources 'are covered up" or "trust me"

Response: Jack Chick is right on Evolution, Freemasonry, JWs, Islam, etc. I trust him and his sources and his work are not covered up or intentionally false. Many of his sources include information involving Creation, music, and other issues, not just the Catholic Church. Hes very wide in his perspective.

Catholic #1: Rivera and Todd were documented criminals, these, Chick's sources.

Response: Chick uses more sources than Rivera and Todd. Chick uses sources from Intelligent design promoters, Bible scholars, researchers, etc. Watchman may call me a smearer and question Chick, but I wont. Rivera was a man who made mistakes, but his fundamental arguments of the corruption of the Catholic Church and the Jesuits are facts. Todd was a man who made mistakes as well, but he tried his best to outline the Satanism is prevalent in society and the Secret Societies power in America. That should be cherished not condemned.

Catholic #1: I have read Marcavages views on this site about Catholics. He spends more time, it seems fighting us than focusing on abortion, etc.

Response: Marcavages has a right to believe in what he wants about Catholics. Abortion is forever evil and murder, but ecumenical unity is wrong and shouldnt be used to fight against legitimate social ills at all. I dont follow ecumenicalism and Rome is surely promoting that gambit to con Bible-Believers to compromise their faith for submitting to the teachings of the Vatican. I will never submit to the Vatican, Freemasonry, or other false groups at all. God allowed me to witness the truth in front of my face and I will not deny God. Dissent with false doctrine is scriptural and not evil or a hindrance to people.

Catholic #1: His posts and info show he never really knew anything about Catholicism. Reading articles and statements do not make one a Catholic nor an expert. He clearly knows little about us. Further, the "ex" title is telling. Ex-smokers are some of the biggest anti-smoking nazi's around.

Response: Thats so funny that you call an ex-Catholic like Marcavages as not knowing anything about Catholicism. Catholicism is easy to understand. It believes that works save, that Mary is sinless, that the mass contains the body and blood of Jesus Christ in a circular wafer (used by the ancient Babylonian and Egyptian pagans), that purgatory is a real place, that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ when the Pope is never mentioned in the Bible and the Early Church condemned a bishop of bishops as Cyprian eloquently said in his works.

Catholic #1: Watchman,

I respect the fact that you are at least willing to look at both sides. By reviewing sites such as catholic .com, Catholic Apologetics International, Scripture Catholic, etc one should get a fair and balanced view of what we believe. Not some Chick-fantasy.

Response: Chick is not showing fantasy. Jack Chick is right that Roman Catholicism embraces purgatory, the Papacy, etc. Hes right that the Jesuits have been involved with negative activities before. Hes right that Freemasonry is wrong and occultic and hes right that God existed and that he created the heavens and the Earth. Jack Chick is right on a lot of issues.

Catholic #1: As I have said before, look at what we REALLY believe, not what someon with a clear grudge or slant has to say.

Response: I always know what Catholicism is all about by the Bible, Vatican II documents, early church quotes, more Catholic documents, and other information years ago. I dont have a grudge or slant.

Catholic #1: I have talked to Ralph Woodrow. He wrote a second book refuting, totally, Hislop's views in light on current archeology, etc.

Response: I havent heard of Ralph Woodrow. Hislops main premise that paganism influenced many of the doctrines of Romanism is a fact. I dont care how many books Woodrow right, since that cant be denied. Many scholars write literature blasting others opinion and that doesnt mean that the blaster is accurate at all.

Hislop believed that the cross was a satanic symbol!!

Response: The cross was a satanic symbol if you when a cross with equal sides on it. The cross in the form of a Tau is from heathen civilizations and thats proven by modern research, archaelogy, and history. Thats Hislops point. Thats not extremist for Christ rose from the dead. Having Christ on a cross around your neck is really sick for Christ is not on the cross but on the right hand of God the Father.

www.thewordsofeternallife.com/cross.html is a site with multiple sources proving the pagan origin of the cross.

Catholic #1: He is extremely eccentric

Response: He may be eccentric, but right on his arguments.

Catholic #1: I have read the KJV, comapring it to my 2 Catholic Bibles. NO disagreement. The original KJV had the so-call "apocrapha" books !!!!!

Response: Many scholars have pointed out the many disagreement between the Catholic Bible and KJV. The original KJV had apocrypha books originally because it was of a reference tool not because they were as equally accurate as the 66-book canon. The early Church like Jerome, Origen, Hilary, etc. rejected it. Jewish scholars like Josephus, The Council of Jamnia, and Philo, and others in the time of Christ and for hundreds of years after the death and resurrection of Jesus condemned the Apocrypha as being inaccurate. Thats a historical fact.

The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). Even King James and William Tyndale condemned the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha have many unscriptural precepts like prayers for the dead and sinless perfection (2 Maccabees 12:39-46), Salvation by Almsgiving (Ecclesiasticus 3:30), Purgatory (II Maccabees 12:39-45), the justification of suicide (II Maccabees 14:43-46), slavery and cruelty (Ecclesiasticus 33:24-28), and reincarnation (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20). Lying, assassination and magical incantations are also approved in the Apocrypha. Luther and Calvin regarded the Apocrypha as not inspired works of God. Luther called it solely for edification and Calvin rejected them out right. So, Bible-Believers rejected the Apocrypha from the beginning.

Catholic #1: TRy as I have, I could not find any validation of the man-made Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide or for some of you, once-saved-always-saved.

Response: There is tons of validation of Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and other precepts. Sola Scriptura is the belief that the Scriptures alone are sufficient to help a believer to find all fundamental doctrines of Christianity. Sola Scriptura also means that the Bible is the supreme source of information for religious usage, the final court of appeal for doctrine, and sufficient guide for any religious walk. Those 3 signs can be easily derived from Gods word. Thats a fact since 2 Timothy 3:15-16 All Scripture is inspired. Also see Psalm 89:34 .Not even God would alter his word. 2 Peter 1:20-21 says his written word is inspired and not given by private inspiration. The prophecy came by holy men of God moved by the Holy Spirit.

The Scriptures arent equal to tradition since tradition has a tendency to be distorted over time, change, some tradition are unscriptural, and no one knows the total extent of authentic tradition. The Scriptures are totally preserved in 66 books. Christ condemned some of tradition, but Christ never condemned the Holy Scriptures. Since tradition varies over time and the Bible doesnt, the Bible is superior to all tradition. Sola Fide is that by grace alone God can save a soul and thats fact expressed explicitly by Paul and others in the NT. I dont believe in once saved always saved.

Catholic #1: BTW

For those of you that are conspiracy nuts, how do you know that Peroutka is really a protestant now, not a Catholic ? Paranoia eventually leads to trusting in nothing or no one.

Response: A Conspiracy is mentioned in the Bible (Ezekiel 22:25, Acts 23:13). Satan is in a conspiracy to ruin the world, but in the end; he will fail. Legitimate conspiracies ought to be praised not condemned like John Loftus, Eric Jon Phelps and other proving that the Vatican allowed Nazis war criminals to come to South America, U.S.A., and other places in the Vatican Ratline. Peroutka is an Arminian Christian. Theres no need for paranoia, but there isnt a need for doubting the New World Order plan as well.

Catholic #1: Christ founded a Church, not a Jesus-and-me-only ism. Read Paul's letters carefully.

Response: Christ founded a Church with Christ as its head, but not with Popes, nuns, monks, priests, etc. that existed from the obsolete Judaism or from pagan religion. Read Paul and Jesus words carefully. Christ wanted the church to be simplistic not massive expansive with pomp and public, unnecessary religious ceremonies as we see today not only in Catholicism but in Charismatic circles and apostate Protestants and apostate Baptist churches.

Catholic #1: The pagan fallacy, once taken its natural and full route, can invalidate all Christianity. There are several books that allege that Jewish and Christian beliefs are nothing more than pagan beliefs, mixed with Middle eastern religions and Greek.

Response: Satan using false faiths counterfeited items of authentic truth and some aspects of Christianity have roots in Judaism. On the other hand, Christianity is unique from all faith since its the only faith that believes that one man saved the sins of the word and that mankind cant be saved by works, but by grace through faith.

All pagan religions subscribe to the belief that works will save a man, but his works can never save a man. Also, Christianity is unique in saying that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven and Jesus saved all of the sins of the entire world of all time not Buddha, Muhammad, Hinduism, etc. Books existing slandering Christianity doesnt validate their opinions anyway. Theres books slandering Bible-Believers, but that doesnt make them factually true.

Catholic #1: The everything-we-dont-like-is-a-pagan-religion is poor on any archeology, history and religious thought.

Response: Wow, God said dont follow in the way of the heathen. The Bible says that dont follow sinful. Thats paganism. Archaeology, history, and religious thought have proven the pagan influences in Catholicism and you refuse to accept that. For example, the Popes mitre is from the pagan religions of Babylon and has no scriptural validation. Monks existed in pagan religions globally, but has no scriptural validation. The circular mass is circular and claims to have the blood and body of Christ and a circular wafer is found in many ancient pagan religions (proven by historian Wilkinson), but it has no scriptural validation.

The Pope itself has no scriptural validation and Popes existed in Babylon and many Roman Emperors were called Pappa. Paganism ought to be rejected as wrong not covered up. It's not about what we don't like, it's about what God doesn't like. God doesn't like repeating prayer, unscriptural doctrine, calling a man Holy Father, and other things. I follow God not men.

Catholic #1: Unlike Watchman, you all disagree with me based on your own misconceptions, not what I really bleieve, yet each one of you acts as your own "pope" in what is biblical and who is or isnt a Christian, based on your own narrow and undereducated mind set.

Response: I have no misconceptions about Catholicism. Watchman is Watchman and tried to call me a smearer when I exposed his pal Ronald Reagan (that fraud) and I know all about Catholic belief. I dont act as my own Pope since God gave us a mind to question things. God gave us a spirit to discern things and God gave us a soul so he could save us. Questioning and exposing false doctrines is not evil or a sin. I dont act as a Pope. The Pope lets people bow to him, the Pope claims that he is the Vicar of Christ, centuries ago many Pope claimed to be God or take the place of God which is blasphemous, and the Pope is called Holy Father, when only God is called Holy Father (John 17:11).

Catholic #1: Look at the sites I noted for a fair opinion.

I always looked at pro-Catholic sites before and my mind is made up to follow Gods word and not unscriptural addition tradition.

Catholic #1: I do thank you all, for your attacks have deepened my Catholic faith and I have gotten even depper into scripture!!! I also am a Promo Director now for a Catholic Apolgist group!!!

Response: I thank you for deepening my faith in Jesus Christ. Ive gotten deep in Scripture as well. It doesnt matter if you are a Promo Director for a Catholic Apologist group, since Ive debated racist, 7th Adventists, Oneness, Muslims, JWs, Freemasons, etc. before. This is nothing new.

Catholic #1: BTW- Bible Christian Society, tapes and CD's for $1, if you are interested in the Catholic view from a strict, Bible-only study! No Fathers, little to no Cathecis or Encyclicals

Response: Sorry, Im not interested.

Catholic #1: I am a believer. I find the Catholic faith is in complete harmony with the RSV, Douy-Rheims and KJV!

Response: You are living in false doctrine in the Catholic religion. It is in harmony with the RSV and Douy-Rheims, but not with the KJV that eloquently refutes much of Roman Catholic distortions of scripture.

Catholic #1: Thank you all for increasing my faith. I continually pray for you, that Satan not use you as a willing patsy for his will.

Response: Thank you for increasing my faith. I dont need prayer to follow Roman Catholicism. Satan is not using me as a patsy for his will. The Roman Catholic Church is false by the evidence.

Catholic #1: Watchman, I can at least respect you/I differences brother in Christ!!!!!

Response: What can I say. Watchman is Watchman. Hes pro-Confederacy and denies that Freemasonry influenced the Confederacy and Union side of the War. For example, the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite was based in Charleston, South Carolina and Albert Pike and many Confederate leaders were Masons just like General Grant. Anton Chaitkin documented a strong Masonry presence in the South as well. Watchman mocked me by questioning the existence of the Knights of the Golden Circle when both Union and Confederate leaders were members and scholars having proven their and the Jesuits involvement in the death of Abraham Lincoln before. He makes the mistake by claiming that I judge all Confederates as evil, which I dont.

I only judge the leadership of the Confederacy like Union as controlled by the Elite in the Civil War. Nothing more or less. I go on the Bush Revealed Forum and writes articles, but I dont agree with everything he believes in as well. He mocks the Jesuit conspiracy fact, but heres some facts that Watchman and Catholic #1 dont want you to know:

Fact: Jesuit priest Bernhard Staempfle helped Hitler write Mein Kampf proven by author Edmond Paris and Otto Strasser was one of the founders of the Nazi Party. Even Hitler said that he modeled the SS after the Jesuit Order.
Fact: Honorary 33rd Degree Freemason Ronald Reagan was cozy with Boston College President Jesuit J. Donald Monan. Reagan not only passed abortion in California in the 1960s and was anti-gun, but also allowed pro-abortion Supreme Court justice Sandra Day OConnor to exist and other bad political policies.
Fact: Hitler signed Concordant with Vatican Cardinal Pacelli in 1933 with the help of Knight of Malta Franz von Papen. Hitler was never excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church at all.
Fact:
Fact: Many Jesuits and the Vatican supported Latin American dictators to oppress the people there.
Fact: Jesuit Priest and 33rd Degree Freemason Joseph Rettinger create the powerful and sinister Bilderberger Group.
Fact: Jesuit priest William J. Fulco wrote the script for the unscriptural/occultic film of the Passion of the Christ.
Fact: Knight of Malta Dr.John J. DeGioia is a Georgetown/Jesuit trained person whos part of the Elite by being a member of the U.S. National Commission for UNESCO, Chair of its Education Committee, according to the webpage he "represents Georgetown" being a member of the World Economic Forum and the Council on Foreign Relations.
Fact: Jesuit Georgetown University trained Bill Clinton and he even went with Jesuit Richard McSorley on a trip to Olso, Norway since both opposed the Vietnam War. Clinton is obvious a person who is pro-abortion and even vetoes a ban on partial birth abortion when the majority of the American people opposed that type of abortion.

*Not to mention that the refuse to look at the Vaticans Secret Societies of the Opus Dei, Knights of Columbus, Knights of Malta, etc. I hope you convert to real Christianity Catholic #1.

By TruthSeeker24 (Timothy).


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My answer to Pastor Steve.


Pastor Steve: I read his post If I was a black man I would surely want to set the record straight as well, however I think Bill Cosby would agree with me and say you're wrong and I'm right. This isn't data from "white supremists". This is data from the FBI And other even more credible statistics, and it is not just a minor disappropriation.


Response: I know you read my post. I disagree with you on British Israelism for plenty of reasons and about the Jewish people for numerous reasons. I knew it had to come down to this situation indeed. I want the record straight and it's true that Bill Cosby and the "Rev." Jesse Lee Peterson would agree with you on some issues. I don't think that they would agree with you that blacks have no chance of being greatly intellectual gifted like me, that the real Jews are Anglo-Saxons whites being refuted by creditable theologians and historians before, or that blacks in general have a genetic pre-disposition for all crimes, which is a lie and you know it. That data was used by white supremacists like Jared Taylor and others. Also, many folks like Tim Wise have exposed the misinterpretation of the FBI data that the racist Taylor have utilized. My links expose them eloquently. Like I said before, there is disappropriation in some black people, but not all blacks are criminals nor genetically apt to commit violent crime. It's very hilarious that Bill Cosby have been neutral on racial issues for decades then goes around and starts bashing the poor. I hear nothing from Bill on real black history neither on the corrupt policies of the Bush administration.

Pastor Steve: Genes have to do with violent crime, you should open up your eyes. Genes have to do with gifts, and they should all live where God put them and not discriminate against their ethnic cultural heritage to force them to live in a situation God never intended.

Response: You're speaking a half-truth here. Genes are special and with characteristic for all mankind. You are right on that. On the otherhand, even the Human Genome Project cited that genes vary more within races than between. Genes can be a gift in many times. As for genes and crime, there is no conclusive evidence that violent crime is genetic. Many scientists have proposed a hypothesis in their research that genes may have a role in anti-social behavior, primarily among males. There is no conclusive evidence to denote that blacks are genetically more apt to be criminal. To believe that is not only racist, but pro-eugenics. As for living, any man has a right to live whereever they want to live in any nation. The law commands this and morality preaches this. You need to open your eyes on God's Word saying to treat your neighbor as yourself, love all men, and the house of the Lord is a place for all people.

Pastor Steve: An example of violence related to genes: An adult black male is 300 times more likely to commit murder than a white woman. Although adult black males of the age to commit crime make up 1.2 percent of the population, they commit 74% of ALL VIOLENT CRIME like RAPE AND MURDER. I'll let you read a multitude of other statistics at the link.

Response: This is no example, but your own view. I guess you love to try to denigrate black people. I will look into your rape view, but my intuition tells me that it's a product of a distorted stat, especially when you cite nothing about white male rape. The truth is that the majority of crime is committed by white males, not black people. In 2002, 29.3 million blacks lived in America of 12 and over. In 2002, there were 1.2 million violent crimes committed by blacks as recored in the Criminal Victimization , U.S. Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2004, Tables 40 and 46. This is vastly lower than the claims of white racists. This is just 1.3% of the population of blacks in America. Therefore, it's false to say that 74% of all violent crime are committed by blacks. Also, the links that you use from from the 1990's when the crime rate was much higher than today. Now, the crime rates have decreased among all groups. From 1995-2000, blacks were 65 percent of racial and ethnic hate-crime victims, while whites were 21 percent of such victims. In 2001, there were approximately 4.6 times more white-on-black than black-on-white hate crimes. It's very ironic that you supposedly want racial peaceful co-existence, but won't discuss the disaproporationate levels of crimes among whites in serial killers, corporate fraud, imperialistic adventures, bringe drinking, alcohol related deaths, etc. There are a multitude of stats refuting the lies about black crime by folks like Tim Wise, so you can't intimidate me. Plus, most of your stats are from the mid-1990's and are outdated anyway.

Response: TruthSeeker says that many experts have found that poverty and education has to do with crime. They have been saying that for the last 100 years, and that's why we have given black's everything freely, including TRILLIONS of dollars worth of EDUCATION PROGRAMS and handouts. However, things still haven't changed because God gave gifts to every ethnic culture to live SEPARATELY from all other cultures.

Response: I've say that and that's true. People have said that for a long time, but it's a lie that in 100 years blacks have been given everythign freely. That's a lie for 100 years ago, we were under Jim Crow, many of us were lynch, we were discriminated against, we were suffered like crazy, and many of us died. Don't give me that freely nonesense. The vast majority of black people work in America and contributed greatly to this country. Money have been given to education programs and other things. Instead of citing the negative problems in the black community, why do you cite the positive results that we've achieved in decades. For example, the poverty rate for black children 41.5 percent in 1995 to 30.0 percent in 2001 (This stats is from the Heritage Foundation, not a left wing group at all). The black ownership rate among Blacks are in record highs. The Black drop out rate have decreased since 1972. Blacks have increased thier IQs drastically since 1990. A record number of black Phds, althetes, scholars, theologians, historians, speakers, and other leaders exist in this nations.

Real black history in Egypt, Nubia, Nok, parts of India and Asia, Europe, Songhai, Mali, Zimbabwe, Olmecs, etc. are being discovered all of the time. Bill Cosby and Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson haven't discussed that at all. I'm bringing it Steve. Some black people haven't recieved handouts, but fought for the ascendance to greatness. Also, Steve don't be hypocrite now. If all compensation-type assistance is invalid, you must condemn the G.I. bill, heritage decrees by the elite into universities, VA benefits, etc. since you can describe that as handouts as well. Not to mention that blacks on welfare have decreased for decades that you don't mention. Nice try Steve. Education programs have worked in many places. For example in Norfolk, VA (where it's 50% black) they were awarded the best urban education center in the country. Most black schools like Roberts Elementary have recieved great honors in their testing as well. Yes, black people have problems, but we aren't stationary in our disposition neither are all blacks criminals or intellectually inferior to white people at all. Blacks have shown that we can increase our intellectual prowess.

Get the record straight Steve. Things have changed in America for blacks. Many blacks are leaders, many blacks have given back to their community, many blacks are learning their true heritage, and many blacks are being smarter despite at first living in poverty. We need continued effort. Continued effort and education have made positive results. Just because problems persist, doesn't mean there is no hope or it's time to give up. Cowards give up. Men step up and continue to fight. The Bible says that believers of any color can unite. In Acts, the black man named Niger united in prayer with non-blacks. The Bible in Revelation have all people together praising the Lord, so don't bring up the segregation of believers nonesense. I know about you and your agenda and I will not let my people to be slandered. Regardless of what that pro-Bush shill "Rev." Peterson may say, blacks do have moral character and are a glorious creation of Almighty God. Instead of blaming the majority of crime on black people, we should be exposing the Bush administration, helping our fellow man, and exposing tyranny in this country.

By TruthSeeker24.