My debate with another Catholic

*This is my response to Catholic #1 and his views. Enjoy.

Catholic #1: Hislop has long been rendered obsolete and Chick, well, what can you say about that.

Response: I dont consider Hislop and Jack Chick obsolete at all. Why do many people dislike Jack Chick? Its because hes been a soul winner for decades and never backed down from exposing the many Catholic superstitions that plague their religion like a virus.

Hislop conclusively proved that many of the infrastructures of the Catholic Church like the Papacy, nuns, mitre, mass, and other things have origins from the Mystery Religions of Egypt and Babylon not from the Bible. Jack Chick has proven to be a soul-winner for Christ and shown great exposes about Mormonism, Catholicism, Freemasonry, Jehovah Witnesses, Evolution, and Bible preservation for decades. Those things and what Hislop wrote are relevant today and are never obsolete.

Catholic #1: For info about chick and Hislop, look to catholic.com for their essays on them.

Response: Sorry, I rather look at www.piney.com/HislopTOC1.html and www.chick.com and see what both men have to say, not distortions. Chick have opposed Freemasonry, JWs, Islam, etc. and that should be commended. His opposition to the religion on Catholicism is founded on Scripture.

Catholic #1: Either/or arguments are a hallmark of Protestantism, though Jesus stated he was the foundation, yet we see in Rev ther are 12 foundations. The saints in heaven share in Jesus. Jesus is the head, we are his body, working together. Honoring Mary is the same as Jesus, as Jesus was a good Jew following the 10 commandments perfectly. Paul stated he suffered for the body, "lacking in Christ's iflictions" Is he saying Jesus didnt do enough? NO! he joins himself to Christ, as we all should do.

Response: This is a classic case of distortion. The Bible says that Christ is the foundation and the chief corner stone plus the Rock period (1 Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:20, Romans 9:33, 1 Corinthians 10:4). The 12 foundations in Revelations refer to the New city of Jerusalem, not to the real and total indestructible foundation and Rock of the Lord Jesus Christ. Nice tactic in distorting the Scriptures to suit your agenda. I agree that the saints in Heaven live with Jesus and that Jesus is the head of the Church and believers are the body working together. On the other hand, there is no scriptural proof of a Pope, nuns, priests being a small number when God established the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:5, 1 Peter 2:9).

The Lord Jesus Christ is our only High Priest (Hebrews 7:26). There is nothing wrong with Honoring Mary, but I honor all believers equally not just Mary. Mary is a fallible, sinful woman since the Bible says that all men sinned. If you deny that all men have sinned before, you call the Bible a liar. The Catholic religion believes in venerating Mary and many Catholic documents cite Marian worship and some document classify Mary as a co-Mediatrix.

The Bible Says that Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God and man plus we arent to worship nothing but God (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 12:24, Exodus 34:14). It isnt necessarily for veneration since we respect Mary, but Christ should be our majority for all veneration and honor should be given to all believers (which makes up Mary) equally. Christ was God in the flesh and called Mary woman. I have no problem with man suffering problems after salvation, but suffering is never redemptive. Only God Almighty can redeem us by nothing of ourselves. There is nothing wrong with joining with Jesus Christ, but not following false doctrines like the existence of a Pope, nuns, scapular, rosary beads with repetitive prayer violating Gods word (Matthew 6:7), etc.

Catholic #1: It is not either/or.

Response: There is context in scripture and God said choose heaven or choose Hell. There is an either or in life.

Catholic #1: Any one that seriously believes in Chick, is rather sacary as all his sources 'are covered up" or "trust me"

Response: Jack Chick is right on Evolution, Freemasonry, JWs, Islam, etc. I trust him and his sources and his work are not covered up or intentionally false. Many of his sources include information involving Creation, music, and other issues, not just the Catholic Church. Hes very wide in his perspective.

Catholic #1: Rivera and Todd were documented criminals, these, Chick's sources.

Response: Chick uses more sources than Rivera and Todd. Chick uses sources from Intelligent design promoters, Bible scholars, researchers, etc. Watchman may call me a smearer and question Chick, but I wont. Rivera was a man who made mistakes, but his fundamental arguments of the corruption of the Catholic Church and the Jesuits are facts. Todd was a man who made mistakes as well, but he tried his best to outline the Satanism is prevalent in society and the Secret Societies power in America. That should be cherished not condemned.

Catholic #1: I have read Marcavages views on this site about Catholics. He spends more time, it seems fighting us than focusing on abortion, etc.

Response: Marcavages has a right to believe in what he wants about Catholics. Abortion is forever evil and murder, but ecumenical unity is wrong and shouldnt be used to fight against legitimate social ills at all. I dont follow ecumenicalism and Rome is surely promoting that gambit to con Bible-Believers to compromise their faith for submitting to the teachings of the Vatican. I will never submit to the Vatican, Freemasonry, or other false groups at all. God allowed me to witness the truth in front of my face and I will not deny God. Dissent with false doctrine is scriptural and not evil or a hindrance to people.

Catholic #1: His posts and info show he never really knew anything about Catholicism. Reading articles and statements do not make one a Catholic nor an expert. He clearly knows little about us. Further, the "ex" title is telling. Ex-smokers are some of the biggest anti-smoking nazi's around.

Response: Thats so funny that you call an ex-Catholic like Marcavages as not knowing anything about Catholicism. Catholicism is easy to understand. It believes that works save, that Mary is sinless, that the mass contains the body and blood of Jesus Christ in a circular wafer (used by the ancient Babylonian and Egyptian pagans), that purgatory is a real place, that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ when the Pope is never mentioned in the Bible and the Early Church condemned a bishop of bishops as Cyprian eloquently said in his works.

Catholic #1: Watchman,

I respect the fact that you are at least willing to look at both sides. By reviewing sites such as catholic .com, Catholic Apologetics International, Scripture Catholic, etc one should get a fair and balanced view of what we believe. Not some Chick-fantasy.

Response: Chick is not showing fantasy. Jack Chick is right that Roman Catholicism embraces purgatory, the Papacy, etc. Hes right that the Jesuits have been involved with negative activities before. Hes right that Freemasonry is wrong and occultic and hes right that God existed and that he created the heavens and the Earth. Jack Chick is right on a lot of issues.

Catholic #1: As I have said before, look at what we REALLY believe, not what someon with a clear grudge or slant has to say.

Response: I always know what Catholicism is all about by the Bible, Vatican II documents, early church quotes, more Catholic documents, and other information years ago. I dont have a grudge or slant.

Catholic #1: I have talked to Ralph Woodrow. He wrote a second book refuting, totally, Hislop's views in light on current archeology, etc.

Response: I havent heard of Ralph Woodrow. Hislops main premise that paganism influenced many of the doctrines of Romanism is a fact. I dont care how many books Woodrow right, since that cant be denied. Many scholars write literature blasting others opinion and that doesnt mean that the blaster is accurate at all.

Hislop believed that the cross was a satanic symbol!!

Response: The cross was a satanic symbol if you when a cross with equal sides on it. The cross in the form of a Tau is from heathen civilizations and thats proven by modern research, archaelogy, and history. Thats Hislops point. Thats not extremist for Christ rose from the dead. Having Christ on a cross around your neck is really sick for Christ is not on the cross but on the right hand of God the Father.

www.thewordsofeternallife.com/cross.html is a site with multiple sources proving the pagan origin of the cross.

Catholic #1: He is extremely eccentric

Response: He may be eccentric, but right on his arguments.

Catholic #1: I have read the KJV, comapring it to my 2 Catholic Bibles. NO disagreement. The original KJV had the so-call "apocrapha" books !!!!!

Response: Many scholars have pointed out the many disagreement between the Catholic Bible and KJV. The original KJV had apocrypha books originally because it was of a reference tool not because they were as equally accurate as the 66-book canon. The early Church like Jerome, Origen, Hilary, etc. rejected it. Jewish scholars like Josephus, The Council of Jamnia, and Philo, and others in the time of Christ and for hundreds of years after the death and resurrection of Jesus condemned the Apocrypha as being inaccurate. Thats a historical fact.

The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). Even King James and William Tyndale condemned the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha have many unscriptural precepts like prayers for the dead and sinless perfection (2 Maccabees 12:39-46), Salvation by Almsgiving (Ecclesiasticus 3:30), Purgatory (II Maccabees 12:39-45), the justification of suicide (II Maccabees 14:43-46), slavery and cruelty (Ecclesiasticus 33:24-28), and reincarnation (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20). Lying, assassination and magical incantations are also approved in the Apocrypha. Luther and Calvin regarded the Apocrypha as not inspired works of God. Luther called it solely for edification and Calvin rejected them out right. So, Bible-Believers rejected the Apocrypha from the beginning.

Catholic #1: TRy as I have, I could not find any validation of the man-made Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide or for some of you, once-saved-always-saved.

Response: There is tons of validation of Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and other precepts. Sola Scriptura is the belief that the Scriptures alone are sufficient to help a believer to find all fundamental doctrines of Christianity. Sola Scriptura also means that the Bible is the supreme source of information for religious usage, the final court of appeal for doctrine, and sufficient guide for any religious walk. Those 3 signs can be easily derived from Gods word. Thats a fact since 2 Timothy 3:15-16 All Scripture is inspired. Also see Psalm 89:34 .Not even God would alter his word. 2 Peter 1:20-21 says his written word is inspired and not given by private inspiration. The prophecy came by holy men of God moved by the Holy Spirit.

The Scriptures arent equal to tradition since tradition has a tendency to be distorted over time, change, some tradition are unscriptural, and no one knows the total extent of authentic tradition. The Scriptures are totally preserved in 66 books. Christ condemned some of tradition, but Christ never condemned the Holy Scriptures. Since tradition varies over time and the Bible doesnt, the Bible is superior to all tradition. Sola Fide is that by grace alone God can save a soul and thats fact expressed explicitly by Paul and others in the NT. I dont believe in once saved always saved.

Catholic #1: BTW

For those of you that are conspiracy nuts, how do you know that Peroutka is really a protestant now, not a Catholic ? Paranoia eventually leads to trusting in nothing or no one.

Response: A Conspiracy is mentioned in the Bible (Ezekiel 22:25, Acts 23:13). Satan is in a conspiracy to ruin the world, but in the end; he will fail. Legitimate conspiracies ought to be praised not condemned like John Loftus, Eric Jon Phelps and other proving that the Vatican allowed Nazis war criminals to come to South America, U.S.A., and other places in the Vatican Ratline. Peroutka is an Arminian Christian. Theres no need for paranoia, but there isnt a need for doubting the New World Order plan as well.

Catholic #1: Christ founded a Church, not a Jesus-and-me-only ism. Read Paul's letters carefully.

Response: Christ founded a Church with Christ as its head, but not with Popes, nuns, monks, priests, etc. that existed from the obsolete Judaism or from pagan religion. Read Paul and Jesus words carefully. Christ wanted the church to be simplistic not massive expansive with pomp and public, unnecessary religious ceremonies as we see today not only in Catholicism but in Charismatic circles and apostate Protestants and apostate Baptist churches.

Catholic #1: The pagan fallacy, once taken its natural and full route, can invalidate all Christianity. There are several books that allege that Jewish and Christian beliefs are nothing more than pagan beliefs, mixed with Middle eastern religions and Greek.

Response: Satan using false faiths counterfeited items of authentic truth and some aspects of Christianity have roots in Judaism. On the other hand, Christianity is unique from all faith since its the only faith that believes that one man saved the sins of the word and that mankind cant be saved by works, but by grace through faith.

All pagan religions subscribe to the belief that works will save a man, but his works can never save a man. Also, Christianity is unique in saying that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven and Jesus saved all of the sins of the entire world of all time not Buddha, Muhammad, Hinduism, etc. Books existing slandering Christianity doesnt validate their opinions anyway. Theres books slandering Bible-Believers, but that doesnt make them factually true.

Catholic #1: The everything-we-dont-like-is-a-pagan-religion is poor on any archeology, history and religious thought.

Response: Wow, God said dont follow in the way of the heathen. The Bible says that dont follow sinful. Thats paganism. Archaeology, history, and religious thought have proven the pagan influences in Catholicism and you refuse to accept that. For example, the Popes mitre is from the pagan religions of Babylon and has no scriptural validation. Monks existed in pagan religions globally, but has no scriptural validation. The circular mass is circular and claims to have the blood and body of Christ and a circular wafer is found in many ancient pagan religions (proven by historian Wilkinson), but it has no scriptural validation.

The Pope itself has no scriptural validation and Popes existed in Babylon and many Roman Emperors were called Pappa. Paganism ought to be rejected as wrong not covered up. It's not about what we don't like, it's about what God doesn't like. God doesn't like repeating prayer, unscriptural doctrine, calling a man Holy Father, and other things. I follow God not men.

Catholic #1: Unlike Watchman, you all disagree with me based on your own misconceptions, not what I really bleieve, yet each one of you acts as your own "pope" in what is biblical and who is or isnt a Christian, based on your own narrow and undereducated mind set.

Response: I have no misconceptions about Catholicism. Watchman is Watchman and tried to call me a smearer when I exposed his pal Ronald Reagan (that fraud) and I know all about Catholic belief. I dont act as my own Pope since God gave us a mind to question things. God gave us a spirit to discern things and God gave us a soul so he could save us. Questioning and exposing false doctrines is not evil or a sin. I dont act as a Pope. The Pope lets people bow to him, the Pope claims that he is the Vicar of Christ, centuries ago many Pope claimed to be God or take the place of God which is blasphemous, and the Pope is called Holy Father, when only God is called Holy Father (John 17:11).

Catholic #1: Look at the sites I noted for a fair opinion.

I always looked at pro-Catholic sites before and my mind is made up to follow Gods word and not unscriptural addition tradition.

Catholic #1: I do thank you all, for your attacks have deepened my Catholic faith and I have gotten even depper into scripture!!! I also am a Promo Director now for a Catholic Apolgist group!!!

Response: I thank you for deepening my faith in Jesus Christ. Ive gotten deep in Scripture as well. It doesnt matter if you are a Promo Director for a Catholic Apologist group, since Ive debated racist, 7th Adventists, Oneness, Muslims, JWs, Freemasons, etc. before. This is nothing new.

Catholic #1: BTW- Bible Christian Society, tapes and CD's for $1, if you are interested in the Catholic view from a strict, Bible-only study! No Fathers, little to no Cathecis or Encyclicals

Response: Sorry, Im not interested.

Catholic #1: I am a believer. I find the Catholic faith is in complete harmony with the RSV, Douy-Rheims and KJV!

Response: You are living in false doctrine in the Catholic religion. It is in harmony with the RSV and Douy-Rheims, but not with the KJV that eloquently refutes much of Roman Catholic distortions of scripture.

Catholic #1: Thank you all for increasing my faith. I continually pray for you, that Satan not use you as a willing patsy for his will.

Response: Thank you for increasing my faith. I dont need prayer to follow Roman Catholicism. Satan is not using me as a patsy for his will. The Roman Catholic Church is false by the evidence.

Catholic #1: Watchman, I can at least respect you/I differences brother in Christ!!!!!

Response: What can I say. Watchman is Watchman. Hes pro-Confederacy and denies that Freemasonry influenced the Confederacy and Union side of the War. For example, the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite was based in Charleston, South Carolina and Albert Pike and many Confederate leaders were Masons just like General Grant. Anton Chaitkin documented a strong Masonry presence in the South as well. Watchman mocked me by questioning the existence of the Knights of the Golden Circle when both Union and Confederate leaders were members and scholars having proven their and the Jesuits involvement in the death of Abraham Lincoln before I judge all Confederates as evil, which I do.

I judge the leadership of the Confederacy as controlled by the Elite in the Civil War. Nothing more or less. I go on the Bush Revealed Forum and writes articles, but I dont agree with everything he believes in as well. He mocks the Jesuit conspiracy fact, but heres some facts that Watchman and Catholic #1 dont want you to know:

Fact: Jesuit priest Bernhard Staempfle helped Hitler write Mein Kampf proven by author Edmond Paris and Otto Strasser was one of the founders of the Nazi Party. Even Hitler said that he modeled the SS after the Jesuit Order.
Fact: Honorary 33rd Degree Freemason Ronald Reagan was cozy with Boston College President Jesuit J. Donald Monan. Reagan not only passed abortion in California in the 1960s and was anti-gun, but also allowed pro-abortion Supreme Court justice Sandra Day OConnor to exist and other bad political policies.
Fact: Hitler signed Concordant with Vatican Cardinal Pacelli in 1933 with the help of Knight of Malta Franz von Papen. Hitler was never excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church at all.
Fact:
Fact: Many Jesuits and the Vatican supported Latin American dictators to oppress the people there.
Fact: Jesuit Priest and 33rd Degree Freemason Joseph Rettinger create the powerful and sinister Bilderberger Group.
Fact: Jesuit priest William J. Fulco wrote the script for the unscriptural/occultic film of the Passion of the Christ.
Fact: Knight of Malta Dr.John J. DeGioia is a Georgetown/Jesuit trained person whos part of the Elite by being a member of the U.S. National Commission for UNESCO, Chair of its Education Committee, according to the webpage he "represents Georgetown" being a member of the World Economic Forum and the Council on Foreign Relations.
Fact: Jesuit Georgetown University trained Bill Clinton and he even went with Jesuit Richard McSorley on a trip to Olso, Norway since both opposed the Vietnam War. Clinton is obvious a person who is pro-abortion and even vetoes a ban on partial birth abortion when the majority of the American people opposed that type of abortion.

*Not to mention that the refuse to look at the Vaticans Secret Societies of the Opus Dei, Knights of Columbus, Knights of Malta, etc. I hope you convert to real Christianity Catholic #1.

By TruthSeeker24 (Timothy).