Friday, April 8, 2011

Dialogue on Economics

MAX JOKER wrote:

Tax payers have to pay for all these social economic justice programs..........
We are destroying our country with debt..........
And people don't have jobs..........
Even after all the bail outs

I do believe you that we should take debt consideration in solving financial matters. I prefer to decrease the debt in a firm way after we get our economic situation moving first. You may prefer the opposite. That is your right. Now, many social economic justice programs (like Social Security, etc.) are readily successful and some extremists want them to be cut (not for economic reasons), but because they abhor any program that are public period. We know their names.

People don't have jobs, because of numerous reasons. One is corporate corruption and the fleecing of AMerican jobs to be sent overseas and economically destructive policies that have transpired decades prior to the election of President Barack Obama. I don't agree with the Wall Street bailouts, so you have no complaints from me about your views on that issue. The fundamental point is that economic populism, some radical programs to have job creation (& infrastructure development), and a rejection of austerity are much better prescriptions to advance than just the status quo. I don't like debt (most people I know don't like debt), but I take consideration over people's lives above debt. I rather some real, comprehensive economic growth occuring first. Then, we should really handle the debt in a serious fashion afterwards. Social Security is solvent and is having a surplus now.

Taxpayers do pay for things as cited in the Constitution. Also, we have record low taxation existing in America, especially among the super rich. Some corporations pay no taxes, while having record bonuses. Is this right or wrong? The answer is it's wrong.

http://www.soxfirst.com/30394498/us_corporate_taxes_at_record_lows.php



By Timothy


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http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TJFB9GG3A44FTKV61/p2



If my taxes go for someone's child benefits or food stamps or grants to black universities, it is forced robbery. Get yourself a copy of the constitution.

-Captain Right

My Response:

You are really silly. I show his comments since this is how racist pieces of liars like "Captain Right" think. This is what they say behind closed doors.

First off, taxes are mentioned in the Constitution. I've read the Constitution before. I rather have my tax dollars go into food stamps, grants to any universities, child benefits, helping the homeless, etc. than immoral wars. Also, our infrastructure is falling and using money to solve this problem is fine. Someone else's? When a person is starving in America, it's not someone else's problem. It's our problem since we live here in this country and it's our responsibility to help human beings via the private and public avenues (since we are human beings).

Also, the government is made up by the people. Since the government is of the people, people have the right to use the government to assist those less fortunate. Using your logic, you can't use taxpayer money to help anyone whatsoever except in a very limited capacity. This isn't a reality since we live in the 21st century not the 18th century. The Constitution gives people the right to make new laws to help society too. So, your laissez faire economic belief system falls down anyway since using public power to create investments is found in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution

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THe Constitution says the following:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

__________

So, the government can use taxpayer dollars to build roads, promote science, build our infrastructure, and fund post offices.

It's clear.

By Timothy


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This line right here shows what you are all about.

Perhaps you care to explain why it is your business what folks do with the profits they 'earn' from working? Are you also angry that NBA stars and rappers are 'hoarding' the money they have earned as well?

Do you believe the federal government owns all wealth and allows private citizens to borrow it?

I really love when you go into the rant about how the 'rich' are not paying a 'fair share'.

Here is reality.

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-tax...

The top top 25% of earners contribute 86.34% of the tax money that makes this nation go around. The bottom 50% of earners contribute less than 2%. Probably closer to 0% in 2011.

You need to admit that you hate capitalism and the free market system and feel that you deserve to take what you want from whomever has it and divide it up however you see fit and 'fair', comrade.

-Zaius

My Response to Zaius:

To Zaius:

Nice false perceptions, but it doesn't work on me. I don't hate fair markets. I don't agree with the extremes of Communism nor crony capitalism. You love how I use slick terminology. That is my M.O. You know what's I'm about. I'm just in support of economic justice and exposing corproate corruption. I'm about truth and the  non-scapegoating of the poor. I'm about living my life and rejecting the Left/Right Paradigm. I'm about going foward in my livelihood without trying to brainwash individuals into joining the reactionary "Let's blame the poor and be a lover of austerity" parade.

You have the right to join the celebration in that parade as it represents your dogma. I have right to join another parade of social justice and love for real freedom. Now, the rest of your statements are interesting. It is my business to investigate cash flow. The reason is that we are citizens and we have every right to see how are taxpayer dollars are used. We have the right to use policies to prevent tax breaks or any other shady deals. A man legitimately earning wealth is fine. Yet, not every business is made up of straight arrow folks. History proves that legitimate regulation of business practices (not overbearing regulation) can have a stabilizing effect to prevent corruption. We have no right to steal wealth, but we have the right to prevent corruption when dealing with economic issues.

Are you angry that corporate CEOs ship jobs overseas, while workers starve at home. Are you angry that international corporations have record profits while record economic inequality exist worldwide (not only in America)? Are are you angry at some corporations promoting ecological disasters and labor plus human rights violations? See, the rappers and the NBA stars can't create wars on continents, they can increase unemployment, and they can't cause widespread ecological disasters like you know who can? We know who they are. NBA stars and the rappers should pay their fair share of taxes too. With much wealth comes great responsibility.

I don't believe that the federal government should own all of the wealth in the world. I am not a socialist. I do believe that the federal government can tax citizens and develop infrastructure as cited in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Borrowing wealth is a problem, but in the short term, we should create jobs for people first. Then, we can handle the debt and deficit issue more thoroughly. Cutting debt radically now won't equate into reasonable job creation.

I love my rants too. There are other sites that I can show and other studies that refute your claim that the super rich are some boy scouts acting in a scouts honor type of way. The reality is that income taxes aren't all taxes and they aren't even apart of all total taxes in the federal government. Here's another source from http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/04/20/1...
:
"...While the richest one percent of Americans do pay about 40 percent of the total federal income taxes paid in the country, that’s a far cry from 40 percent of overall taxes. Even those working Americans who don’t make enough money to have federal income tax liability pay federal payroll and excise taxes, which fall much harder on the middle-class and low-income individuals than those at the upper end of the income scale.
Once all taxes are taken into account, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the richest one percent of Americans pay about 28 percent of total federal taxes, which is right in line with their 25 percent share of total income. And therein lies the real story: the richest one percent of Americans pay such a large share of federal income taxes because they make such a large share of the overall income..."

-By Timothy



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You sound like Nancy Pelosi. She has an excuse, as she is senile and obviously suffering from dementia.

"If you want to ban all government regulations, then enjoy child labor, poisons in our water, corrupt medical practices, massive discrimination, massive pollution in our atmosphere, and other evils."

Really now. Like you said, this is 2011.

Have you taken a look at China recently? They are guilty of all these things and we are borrowing 1.65 trillion dollars a year from them....and you forgot to mention massive human rights violations and outright slavery.

A vote for Obama is a vote to guarantee the black community will never recover.

"In 2007, best year of the Bush era, white households had a median net worth of $134,280, compared with $13,450 for black households.

By 2009, the median net worth for white households had fallen 24 percent to $97,860. For black households, it had plummeted 83 percent to $2,170, a near wipeout.

As Algernon Austin of EPI's Program on Race, Ethnicity and the Economy put it, "In 2009, for every dollar of wealth the average white household had, black households had two cents.""

I want all Americans to be prosperous. I campaigned and voted for Col. Allen West for this very reason.

The progressives want to keep you on the 21st century democrat plantation so you will keep them in power.

-Zaius

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To Zaius:
I don’t sound like Nancy Pelosi.I sound like a regular man. You are a pro-Tea Party person, so your apparent views are typical of your agenda. Now, I don’t believe that Pelosi has dementia. My quote about government regulations, poisons, etc. is one hundred percent accurate. Without those labor reforms and legitimate regulations, millions of people worldwide would die as a product of ailments. Not all regulations are good, but many regulations are decent. Even your Republican buddies accept some regulations.
This is 2011 and in 2011, we need safety standards, pro-environmental protections, and other authentic boundaries in our society since we don’t live in the 19th century anymore. It’s just that certain folks want us to live in the 19th century though. I realize about China’s corruption. I’ve written for years against China’s population control measures, anti-Internet policies, and human rights violations.

People from across the political spectrum strongly disagree with the corruption going on in China. Using that logic, you can’t trade and talk with Saudi Arabia either. You talk about borrowing 1.65 trillion dollars a year. Yet, you omit that Wall Street corporations are hoarding $1.8 trillion dollars. The war on terror cost about $3.7 trillion for the past decade according to the newly released study from the Eisenhower Research Project at Brown University. Some estimate show the cost higher than that.

Regardless, we should built jobs first (and financially grow our nation) and then handle our deficit plus debt problems. People are starving to death. So that makes me to make a priority with promoting job creation above the debt. I respect human life above the debt.
We have a huge wealth inequality that helped to cause the recession. Specifically, economics professors Saez (UC Berkeley) and Piketty (Paris School of Economics) show that the percentage of wealth held by the richest 1% of Americans peaked in 1928 and 2007 - right before each crash. The rest of your stats are very deceptive. Under the Bush years, the poverty rate increased as compared to the Clinton years. The Bush years didn’t have radical economic growth as compared to the Clinton years too. Bush Jr. caused a governmental surplus to evolve into a deficit after the Clinton years. Bush rose the deficit and under his administration, the corporate pirates have caused the recession in the first place.
So, Bush experienced worst economic conditions than Clinton and the current President Barack Obama inherited the economic tragedies from the George W. Bush administration. Under Barack Obama, he compromised with the Republicans and adopted even some reactionary tax cuts policies. These policies didn’t great massive economic growth since the current President was compromising with the Republicans & your Tea Party clan.

That clan is a real CLAN if you get what’s I’m saying. I mean clan as in clique, LOL. Also, the median net worth for blacks and whites in 2009 are tragic. These events are caused by the effects of great recession that transpired first during the George W. Bush administration not because of the failure of real populist economic solutions (which haven’t been tried in this time at all).
You have the right to campaign with who you want. Col. Allen West is a man. I don’t believe in following any plantation whether the Democratic plantation or Republican plantation. I’m a grown black man. I don’t to adhere to some plantation period.You love the Republican plantation as you have admitted to.
I reject plantations, but I do accept in populism. This populism involves investments, apprenticeships, ending the war on terror, and even creating debtfree money. Also, I’m not an ignorant fool. You are ignorant by supporting the same policies (like banker speculation, derivatives, corporate raiding, privatization, Wall Street crimes, war mongering, austerity, and trickled down economics) that brought us into the recession in the first place.


By Timothy

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Mr Zaius wrote:

You are confusing crony capitalism with true free market principles. That is why politically connected corperations like GE do not pay a dime in federal taxes yet their CEO's hold positions in President Obama's administration. That is why Warren Buffet and his corporation owes almost a billion dollars in back taxes accumulated over the last decade, is fighting the IRS in court tooth and nail, yet he is the head cheerleader for the administration to punish his competitors with higher tax rates.
President Obama is indeed a socialist. His rhetoric is no different from every other third world tin pot dictator with delusions of grandeur.

You need to learn the difference between a political speech and words on paper looking for a signature.

You actually are quite the whiner. I can only imagine what will happen when someone tries to fire you for incompetence in the future.
So, you oppose crony capitalism. That is a first. I don't agree with it as well. The truth is that crony capitalism doesn't work as you have proven. Yet, we have record economic disparities here, failed trade deals, failed tricked down economics, and record low taxation among the super rich class. Economists from across the political spectrum have mentioned that we need to do more than just tax cuts in order to solve our financial issues. We have to create jobs first and then use actions to massively lower our deficit & debt in American society.

President Barack Obama isn't a socialist since he doesn't fit the definition of a real socialist. He agrees with private corporations (beyond just crony capitalism), private organizations, and private services. A true socialist won't agree with almost anything private involving itself in the economy. He is more conservative than some conservative politicans in Europe. Comparing his words to a third world dictator is a silly ad hominem attack.

You can disagree with the man on political grounds, but some of your allies have taken criticism into the realm of just hatred. Calling for collective bargining, labor rights, and a jobs plan aren't equated to the words of some authoritarian 3rd world ruler at all. I already know a difference between a speech and signature on a law. You need to know the difference between true socialism and what Obama promotes. I'm not a whiner. I promote free speech, justice, and realism. You just falsely equate any black man striving to fight against reactionary lies as whining. I don't have incompontence. That's a part of your delusion.

-By Timothy


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A Racist Troll:

MLK was a drunken serial womanizer and adulterer, a card carrying member of the COMMUNIST party. A liar and a plagiarist and a fake. MLK and Rosa parks went to communist training camps in Tennessee and the whole bus incident took them 3 months to STAGE. RP admitted to this! Why did they seal his FBI files for 50 years? Your hero was a scumbag!

My Response:


You are a liar. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. rejected Communism as a philosophy. He was never a Communist. He disagreed with Communism in his many speeches, books, and interviews like the one he did with the Merv Griffin show back in 1967. He wrote the following about Communism (from his Strength to Love book):

"...Communism is based on ethical relativism and accepts no stable moral absolutes. Right and wrong are relative to the most expedient methods for dealing with class war. Communism exploits the dreadful philosophy that the end justifies the means. It enunciates movingly the theory of a classless society, but alas! its methods for achieving this noble end are all too often ignoble. Lying, violence, murder, and torture are considered to be justifiable means to achieve the millennial end. Is this an unfair indictment? Listen to the words of Lenin, the real tactician of Communist theory: "We must be ready to employ trickery, deceit, lawbreaking, withholding and concealing truth." Modem history has known many tortuous nights and horror-filled days because his followers have taken this statement seriously...This is our best defense against Communism. War is not the answer...."

There is no evidence that he was a fake. He was not perfect and your heroes have been imperialists, adulterers, and murderers spanning centuries (from Thomas Jefferson to others). What does going into a training camp have to do with accepting all Communist principles. Nothing. The truth is that the Highlander Research and Education Center was a location that wanted labor rights and human equality. It was never dominated by Communists at all. It was smeared as Communist by racist white reactionaries. Horton argued otherwise. "Highlander did not and does not welcome enrollment of anyone with a totalitarian philosophy, whether from the extreme right or the extreme left," he said. "The attempt of the Georgia governor's commission to draw from the serious and fruitful deliberations of this gathering sustenance for the efforts of Southern racists to equate desegregation with communism evokes our strong condemation." While no evidence was found linking Highlander with any subversive group, Tennessee Attorney General Albert Sloan filed a suit to have the schools charter revoked based on allegations the school was conducting integrated studies which was against Tennessee State law. Not to mention that worshippers of capitalism murdered millions of human beings from the Maafa to various wars. Also, many civil rights leaders were independents and were not Communists like Ella Baker and Malcolm X. By 1976 the FBI had acknowledged that it had not obtained any evidence that King himself or the SCLC were actually involved with any communist organizations. The FBI sealing his records can never negate many of the truths that he spoke. The abolitionist movement, the civil rights movement, and other black movements for social change were never dominated collectively by Communists at all. Communism is an economic philosophy that human beings have the free speech right to agree or disagree with.

Rosa Parks was never a lifelong Communist at all. It takes a true liar to smear a Black Woman, especially after she has passed away. I made a promise to Almighty God in private that I will defend my race. I will. Rosa Parks courageously stood up for human rights long before you were born. There is nothing immoral about the Montgomery Bus Boycott or any moral boycott at all. The FBI is a terrorist organization and has no right to lecture any black person on morality. The FBI directly murdered Black Panthers. They lied about human beings. They executed illegal warrantless wiretaps all over the country. J. Edgar Hoover enacted illegal secret projects like COINTELPRO and Operation Chaos. Many of them or FBI agents are traitors not heroes. Dr. King was never scum. He was not perfect, but he was right to believe in equality. He was right to believe in human justice. He was right to fight against poverty. He was right to speak up like a strong black man for liberty. He was right to fight institutional racism. He was right to disagree with Jim Crow oppression harming the black community back then. He was right to sacrifice his time to express sympathy for the plight of the American ghettoes back decades ago. He was right to adhere to strength and compassion, which exemplifies the strength of our black people. He was right to disagree with the war in Vietnam and wanting a legitimate resolution to it. So, you are a white racist that wants to harm black progress. It is as simple as that. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. did more for our people than what you could ever do. It is always right to agree with Black Power, Black Equality, Black Strength, Black Truth, and Justice (including an end to white supremacy). Therefore, I will continue to roar for truth here. You can never slander a black man here that stood up like a man for freedom and peace.
See, this Brother right here now knows your scheme, but Black Unity is stronger than your evil. I will always respect the Brothers doing the Right thing. I will always love the Sisters with a Social and Romantic Love. It is always RBG for Life.


By Timothy (Me)