*This is my response to Catholic #1 and his views. Enjoy.
Catholic #1: Hislop has long been rendered obsolete and Chick, well, what can you say about that.
Response: I dont consider Hislop and Jack Chick obsolete at all. Why do many people dislike Jack Chick? Its because hes been a soul winner for decades and never backed down from exposing the many Catholic superstitions that plague their religion like a virus.
Hislop conclusively proved that many of the infrastructures of the Catholic Church like the Papacy, nuns, mitre, mass, and other things have origins from the Mystery Religions of Egypt and Babylon not from the Bible. Jack Chick has proven to be a soul-winner for Christ and shown great exposes about Mormonism, Catholicism, Freemasonry, Jehovah Witnesses, Evolution, and Bible preservation for decades. Those things and what Hislop wrote are relevant today and are never obsolete.
Catholic #1: For info about chick and Hislop, look to catholic.com for their essays on them.
Response: Sorry, I rather look at www.piney.com/HislopTOC1.html and www.chick.com and see what both men have to say, not distortions. Chick have opposed Freemasonry, JWs, Islam, etc. and that should be commended. His opposition to the religion on Catholicism is founded on Scripture.
Catholic #1: Either/or arguments are a hallmark of Protestantism, though Jesus stated he was the foundation, yet we see in Rev ther are 12 foundations. The saints in heaven share in Jesus. Jesus is the head, we are his body, working together. Honoring Mary is the same as Jesus, as Jesus was a good Jew following the 10 commandments perfectly. Paul stated he suffered for the body, "lacking in Christ's iflictions" Is he saying Jesus didnt do enough? NO! he joins himself to Christ, as we all should do.
Response: This is a classic case of distortion. The Bible says that Christ is the foundation and the chief corner stone plus the Rock period (1 Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:20, Romans 9:33, 1 Corinthians 10:4). The 12 foundations in Revelations refer to the New city of Jerusalem, not to the real and total indestructible foundation and Rock of the Lord Jesus Christ. Nice tactic in distorting the Scriptures to suit your agenda. I agree that the saints in Heaven live with Jesus and that Jesus is the head of the Church and believers are the body working together. On the other hand, there is no scriptural proof of a Pope, nuns, priests being a small number when God established the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:5, 1 Peter 2:9).
The Lord Jesus Christ is our only High Priest (Hebrews 7:26). There is nothing wrong with Honoring Mary, but I honor all believers equally not just Mary. Mary is a fallible, sinful woman since the Bible says that all men sinned. If you deny that all men have sinned before, you call the Bible a liar. The Catholic religion believes in venerating Mary and many Catholic documents cite Marian worship and some document classify Mary as a co-Mediatrix.
The Bible Says that Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God and man plus we arent to worship nothing but God (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 12:24, Exodus 34:14). It isnt necessarily for veneration since we respect Mary, but Christ should be our majority for all veneration and honor should be given to all believers (which makes up Mary) equally. Christ was God in the flesh and called Mary woman. I have no problem with man suffering problems after salvation, but suffering is never redemptive. Only God Almighty can redeem us by nothing of ourselves. There is nothing wrong with joining with Jesus Christ, but not following false doctrines like the existence of a Pope, nuns, scapular, rosary beads with repetitive prayer violating Gods word (Matthew 6:7), etc.
Catholic #1: It is not either/or.
Response: There is context in scripture and God said choose heaven or choose Hell. There is an either or in life.
Catholic #1: Any one that seriously believes in Chick, is rather sacary as all his sources 'are covered up" or "trust me"
Response: Jack Chick is right on Evolution, Freemasonry, JWs, Islam, etc. I trust him and his sources and his work are not covered up or intentionally false. Many of his sources include information involving Creation, music, and other issues, not just the Catholic Church. Hes very wide in his perspective.
Catholic #1: Rivera and Todd were documented criminals, these, Chick's sources.
Response: Chick uses more sources than Rivera and Todd. Chick uses sources from Intelligent design promoters, Bible scholars, researchers, etc. Watchman may call me a smearer and question Chick, but I wont. Rivera was a man who made mistakes, but his fundamental arguments of the corruption of the Catholic Church and the Jesuits are facts. Todd was a man who made mistakes as well, but he tried his best to outline the Satanism is prevalent in society and the Secret Societies power in America. That should be cherished not condemned.
Catholic #1: I have read Marcavages views on this site about Catholics. He spends more time, it seems fighting us than focusing on abortion, etc.
Response: Marcavages has a right to believe in what he wants about Catholics. Abortion is forever evil and murder, but ecumenical unity is wrong and shouldnt be used to fight against legitimate social ills at all. I dont follow ecumenicalism and Rome is surely promoting that gambit to con Bible-Believers to compromise their faith for submitting to the teachings of the Vatican. I will never submit to the Vatican, Freemasonry, or other false groups at all. God allowed me to witness the truth in front of my face and I will not deny God. Dissent with false doctrine is scriptural and not evil or a hindrance to people.
Catholic #1: His posts and info show he never really knew anything about Catholicism. Reading articles and statements do not make one a Catholic nor an expert. He clearly knows little about us. Further, the "ex" title is telling. Ex-smokers are some of the biggest anti-smoking nazi's around.
Response: Thats so funny that you call an ex-Catholic like Marcavages as not knowing anything about Catholicism. Catholicism is easy to understand. It believes that works save, that Mary is sinless, that the mass contains the body and blood of Jesus Christ in a circular wafer (used by the ancient Babylonian and Egyptian pagans), that purgatory is a real place, that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ when the Pope is never mentioned in the Bible and the Early Church condemned a bishop of bishops as Cyprian eloquently said in his works.
Catholic #1: Watchman,
I respect the fact that you are at least willing to look at both sides. By reviewing sites such as catholic .com, Catholic Apologetics International, Scripture Catholic, etc one should get a fair and balanced view of what we believe. Not some Chick-fantasy.
Response: Chick is not showing fantasy. Jack Chick is right that Roman Catholicism embraces purgatory, the Papacy, etc. Hes right that the Jesuits have been involved with negative activities before. Hes right that Freemasonry is wrong and occultic and hes right that God existed and that he created the heavens and the Earth. Jack Chick is right on a lot of issues.
Catholic #1: As I have said before, look at what we REALLY believe, not what someon with a clear grudge or slant has to say.
Response: I always know what Catholicism is all about by the Bible, Vatican II documents, early church quotes, more Catholic documents, and other information years ago. I dont have a grudge or slant.
Catholic #1: I have talked to Ralph Woodrow. He wrote a second book refuting, totally, Hislop's views in light on current archeology, etc.
Response: I havent heard of Ralph Woodrow. Hislops main premise that paganism influenced many of the doctrines of Romanism is a fact. I dont care how many books Woodrow right, since that cant be denied. Many scholars write literature blasting others opinion and that doesnt mean that the blaster is accurate at all.
Hislop believed that the cross was a satanic symbol!!
Response: The cross was a satanic symbol if you when a cross with equal sides on it. The cross in the form of a Tau is from heathen civilizations and thats proven by modern research, archaelogy, and history. Thats Hislops point. Thats not extremist for Christ rose from the dead. Having Christ on a cross around your neck is really sick for Christ is not on the cross but on the right hand of God the Father.
www.thewordsofeternallife.com/cross.html is a site with multiple sources proving the pagan origin of the cross.
Catholic #1: He is extremely eccentric
Response: He may be eccentric, but right on his arguments.
Catholic #1: I have read the KJV, comapring it to my 2 Catholic Bibles. NO disagreement. The original KJV had the so-call "apocrapha" books !!!!!
Response: Many scholars have pointed out the many disagreement between the Catholic Bible and KJV. The original KJV had apocrypha books originally because it was of a reference tool not because they were as equally accurate as the 66-book canon. The early Church like Jerome, Origen, Hilary, etc. rejected it. Jewish scholars like Josephus, The Council of Jamnia, and Philo, and others in the time of Christ and for hundreds of years after the death and resurrection of Jesus condemned the Apocrypha as being inaccurate. Thats a historical fact.
The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). Even King James and William Tyndale condemned the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha have many unscriptural precepts like prayers for the dead and sinless perfection (2 Maccabees 12:39-46), Salvation by Almsgiving (Ecclesiasticus 3:30), Purgatory (II Maccabees 12:39-45), the justification of suicide (II Maccabees 14:43-46), slavery and cruelty (Ecclesiasticus 33:24-28), and reincarnation (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20). Lying, assassination and magical incantations are also approved in the Apocrypha. Luther and Calvin regarded the Apocrypha as not inspired works of God. Luther called it solely for edification and Calvin rejected them out right. So, Bible-Believers rejected the Apocrypha from the beginning.
Catholic #1: TRy as I have, I could not find any validation of the man-made Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide or for some of you, once-saved-always-saved.
Response: There is tons of validation of Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide and other precepts. Sola Scriptura is the belief that the Scriptures alone are sufficient to help a believer to find all fundamental doctrines of Christianity. Sola Scriptura also means that the Bible is the supreme source of information for religious usage, the final court of appeal for doctrine, and sufficient guide for any religious walk. Those 3 signs can be easily derived from Gods word. Thats a fact since 2 Timothy 3:15-16 All Scripture is inspired. Also see Psalm 89:34 .Not even God would alter his word. 2 Peter 1:20-21 says his written word is inspired and not given by private inspiration. The prophecy came by holy men of God moved by the Holy Spirit.
The Scriptures arent equal to tradition since tradition has a tendency to be distorted over time, change, some tradition are unscriptural, and no one knows the total extent of authentic tradition. The Scriptures are totally preserved in 66 books. Christ condemned some of tradition, but Christ never condemned the Holy Scriptures. Since tradition varies over time and the Bible doesnt, the Bible is superior to all tradition. Sola Fide is that by grace alone God can save a soul and thats fact expressed explicitly by Paul and others in the NT. I dont believe in once saved always saved.
Catholic #1: BTW
For those of you that are conspiracy nuts, how do you know that Peroutka is really a protestant now, not a Catholic ? Paranoia eventually leads to trusting in nothing or no one.
Response: A Conspiracy is mentioned in the Bible (Ezekiel 22:25, Acts 23:13). Satan is in a conspiracy to ruin the world, but in the end; he will fail. Legitimate conspiracies ought to be praised not condemned like John Loftus, Eric Jon Phelps and other proving that the Vatican allowed Nazis war criminals to come to South America, U.S.A., and other places in the Vatican Ratline. Peroutka is an Arminian Christian. Theres no need for paranoia, but there isnt a need for doubting the New World Order plan as well.
Catholic #1: Christ founded a Church, not a Jesus-and-me-only ism. Read Paul's letters carefully.
Response: Christ founded a Church with Christ as its head, but not with Popes, nuns, monks, priests, etc. that existed from the obsolete Judaism or from pagan religion. Read Paul and Jesus words carefully. Christ wanted the church to be simplistic not massive expansive with pomp and public, unnecessary religious ceremonies as we see today not only in Catholicism but in Charismatic circles and apostate Protestants and apostate Baptist churches.
Catholic #1: The pagan fallacy, once taken its natural and full route, can invalidate all Christianity. There are several books that allege that Jewish and Christian beliefs are nothing more than pagan beliefs, mixed with Middle eastern religions and Greek.
Response: Satan using false faiths counterfeited items of authentic truth and some aspects of Christianity have roots in Judaism. On the other hand, Christianity is unique from all faith since its the only faith that believes that one man saved the sins of the word and that mankind cant be saved by works, but by grace through faith.
All pagan religions subscribe to the belief that works will save a man, but his works can never save a man. Also, Christianity is unique in saying that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven and Jesus saved all of the sins of the entire world of all time not Buddha, Muhammad, Hinduism, etc. Books existing slandering Christianity doesnt validate their opinions anyway. Theres books slandering Bible-Believers, but that doesnt make them factually true.
Catholic #1: The everything-we-dont-like-is-a-pagan-religion is poor on any archeology, history and religious thought.
Response: Wow, God said dont follow in the way of the heathen. The Bible says that dont follow sinful. Thats paganism. Archaeology, history, and religious thought have proven the pagan influences in Catholicism and you refuse to accept that. For example, the Popes mitre is from the pagan religions of Babylon and has no scriptural validation. Monks existed in pagan religions globally, but has no scriptural validation. The circular mass is circular and claims to have the blood and body of Christ and a circular wafer is found in many ancient pagan religions (proven by historian Wilkinson), but it has no scriptural validation.
The Pope itself has no scriptural validation and Popes existed in Babylon and many Roman Emperors were called Pappa. Paganism ought to be rejected as wrong not covered up. It's not about what we don't like, it's about what God doesn't like. God doesn't like repeating prayer, unscriptural doctrine, calling a man Holy Father, and other things. I follow God not men.
Catholic #1: Unlike Watchman, you all disagree with me based on your own misconceptions, not what I really bleieve, yet each one of you acts as your own "pope" in what is biblical and who is or isnt a Christian, based on your own narrow and undereducated mind set.
Response: I have no misconceptions about Catholicism. Watchman is Watchman and tried to call me a smearer when I exposed his pal Ronald Reagan (that fraud) and I know all about Catholic belief. I dont act as my own Pope since God gave us a mind to question things. God gave us a spirit to discern things and God gave us a soul so he could save us. Questioning and exposing false doctrines is not evil or a sin. I dont act as a Pope. The Pope lets people bow to him, the Pope claims that he is the Vicar of Christ, centuries ago many Pope claimed to be God or take the place of God which is blasphemous, and the Pope is called Holy Father, when only God is called Holy Father (John 17:11).
Catholic #1: Look at the sites I noted for a fair opinion.
I always looked at pro-Catholic sites before and my mind is made up to follow Gods word and not unscriptural addition tradition.
Catholic #1: I do thank you all, for your attacks have deepened my Catholic faith and I have gotten even depper into scripture!!! I also am a Promo Director now for a Catholic Apolgist group!!!
Response: I thank you for deepening my faith in Jesus Christ. Ive gotten deep in Scripture as well. It doesnt matter if you are a Promo Director for a Catholic Apologist group, since Ive debated racist, 7th Adventists, Oneness, Muslims, JWs, Freemasons, etc. before. This is nothing new.
Catholic #1: BTW- Bible Christian Society, tapes and CD's for $1, if you are interested in the Catholic view from a strict, Bible-only study! No Fathers, little to no Cathecis or Encyclicals
Response: Sorry, Im not interested.
Catholic #1: I am a believer. I find the Catholic faith is in complete harmony with the RSV, Douy-Rheims and KJV!
Response: You are living in false doctrine in the Catholic religion. It is in harmony with the RSV and Douy-Rheims, but not with the KJV that eloquently refutes much of Roman Catholic distortions of scripture.
Catholic #1: Thank you all for increasing my faith. I continually pray for you, that Satan not use you as a willing patsy for his will.
Response: Thank you for increasing my faith. I dont need prayer to follow Roman Catholicism. Satan is not using me as a patsy for his will. The Roman Catholic Church is false by the evidence.
Catholic #1: Watchman, I can at least respect you/I differences brother in Christ!!!!!
Response: What can I say. Watchman is Watchman. Hes pro-Confederacy and denies that Freemasonry influenced the Confederacy and Union side of the War. For example, the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite was based in Charleston, South Carolina and Albert Pike and many Confederate leaders were Masons just like General Grant. Anton Chaitkin documented a strong Masonry presence in the South as well. Watchman mocked me by questioning the existence of the Knights of the Golden Circle when both Union and Confederate leaders were members and scholars having proven their and the Jesuits involvement in the death of Abraham Lincoln before. He makes the mistake by claiming that I judge all Confederates as evil, which I dont.
I only judge the leadership of the Confederacy like Union as controlled by the Elite in the Civil War. Nothing more or less. I go on the Bush Revealed Forum and writes articles, but I dont agree with everything he believes in as well. He mocks the Jesuit conspiracy fact, but heres some facts that Watchman and Catholic #1 dont want you to know:
Fact: Jesuit priest Bernhard Staempfle helped Hitler write Mein Kampf proven by author Edmond Paris and Otto Strasser was one of the founders of the Nazi Party. Even Hitler said that he modeled the SS after the Jesuit Order.
Fact: Honorary 33rd Degree Freemason Ronald Reagan was cozy with Boston College President Jesuit J. Donald Monan. Reagan not only passed abortion in California in the 1960s and was anti-gun, but also allowed pro-abortion Supreme Court justice Sandra Day OConnor to exist and other bad political policies.
Fact: Hitler signed Concordant with Vatican Cardinal Pacelli in 1933 with the help of Knight of Malta Franz von Papen. Hitler was never excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church at all.
Fact:
Fact: Many Jesuits and the Vatican supported Latin American dictators to oppress the people there.
Fact: Jesuit Priest and 33rd Degree Freemason Joseph Rettinger create the powerful and sinister Bilderberger Group.
Fact: Jesuit priest William J. Fulco wrote the script for the unscriptural/occultic film of the Passion of the Christ.
Fact: Knight of Malta Dr.John J. DeGioia is a Georgetown/Jesuit trained person whos part of the Elite by being a member of the U.S. National Commission for UNESCO, Chair of its Education Committee, according to the webpage he "represents Georgetown" being a member of the World Economic Forum and the Council on Foreign Relations.
Fact: Jesuit Georgetown University trained Bill Clinton and he even went with Jesuit Richard McSorley on a trip to Olso, Norway since both opposed the Vietnam War. Clinton is obvious a person who is pro-abortion and even vetoes a ban on partial birth abortion when the majority of the American people opposed that type of abortion.
*Not to mention that the refuse to look at the Vaticans Secret Societies of the Opus Dei, Knights of Columbus, Knights of Malta, etc. I hope you convert to real Christianity Catholic #1.
By TruthSeeker24 (Timothy).
Tuesday, December 29, 2009
Debate on the Sabbath
From http://thetruth81901.yuku.com/topic/758/t/Debate-on-the-Sabbath.html
I like this response.
2 Corinthians 3:6-17 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW TESTAMENT; not of the LETTER (the law), but of the SPIRIT: for the LETTER KILLETH, but the spirit giveth LIFE. But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH (the law), written and engraven in STONES (the 10 commandments), WAS GLORIOUS, so that the children of ISRAEL could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be DONE AWAY: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of CONDEMNATION (the law) be glory, much more doth the ministration of RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in THIS RESPECT, by reason of the glory that EXCELLED. For if that which IS DONE AWAY (the law) was glorious, much more that which REMAINETH is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to THE END of that which IS ABOLISHED: But their minds were BLINDED (Rom 11:25): for until this day remaineth the same VAIL untaken away in the reading of the OLD TESTAMENT; which vail is DONE AWAY IN CHRIST. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is LIBERTY."
Hebrews 8:6-8 "But now hath he obtained a MORE EXCELLENT ministry, by how much also HE (Jesus Christ) is the mediator of a BETTER COVENANT, which was established upon BETTER PROMISES. For if that first covenant had been FAULTLESS, then should NO PLACE have been sought for the SECOND. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of ISRAEL and with the house of Judah."
Romans 6:14 " For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
Gal 3:10 "For as many as are of the WORKS of the law are UNDER THE CURSE: for it is written, CURSED is everyone that continueth not in ALL THINGS which are written in the law to DO THEM."
*Indeed this is my final response to the issue and you can respond to it as you wish.
pitbull wrote:
The one does not logically follow the other. Just because I'm not supposed to judge you on the day you worship doesn't preclude the requirement to keep the Sabbath. BTW, that's a falacious arguement, since we are not to allow others to judge US on the day we commemorate (Col.2.16), among other things.
Response: It isnt a fallacious argument despite your word games. This is a slick sematic game by you. First, I purely stated a fact that Col. 2:16 forbids us to judge people what we eat or what day we worship. That isnt complicated and that is a simple statement that doesnt need to be criticized. Second, allowing others includes anyone (believer or non-believer) so this sematic game isnt working. Col 2:14 perfectly states that this works dogma of mandatory Sabbath Keeping is nailed to the cross never to be repeated again. I don't judge people worshipping on Saturday if they want, but I do have a right to criticize those who believe that this is Mandatory for all Christians to do. Once again, The New Testament never outlines the Sabbath as a mandatory requirement for all believers to follow at all. I'm believing in Christianity not obsolete Judaism.
pitbull wrote:
Excuse me?!? On the 7th day of the universe's history Yeshua observed the Sabbath. The children of Israel observed the Sabbath BEFORE the Covenant was given from Sinai, and YHWH expected them to observe it, was wroth when they didn't. Remember the double portion of manna on the 6th day and the commandment to NOT go out to gather it on the 7th day in Ex.16? Covenant was spoken in Ex.20. The Sabbath was miraculously set apart at least 3 ways BEFORE the covenant; 1) the double portion on the 6th day, 2) no provision on the 7th day, 3) the extra portion from the 6th day did not spoil overnight, as on the other days. The celebration of Christians (mostly on Sundays) commerates the resurrection of Christ from the dead." But Messiah rose on Sabbath afternoon, just before sundown! What has 1st day (sunday) got to do with it? Go ahead. Ask me to prove it.
Response: Your rhetoric is astounding to me. On the 7th Day, God rested and there is no evidence that Adam, Noah, Abraham or anyone alse before the Exodus 16 observed the Sabbath. There is not even a word of the Sabbath in Genesis and thats a fact you refuse to accept. The children of Israel observing the Sabbath is true in Exodus 16, but this was the first time in the Bible that God required the Hebrews to observe the Sabbath. Before Ex. 16, there were no evidence of anyone observing it or doing rituals to fulfill it all all. As for when Christ rose from the dead:
Jesus wasn't crucified after the Sabbath, but he rose again after the Sabbath (the Sabbath ends at sundown, there is no Sabbath after sundown and the Bible perfectly states that). Look at these verses to clear your distortion:
"1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay." (Mt. 28:1-6)
"Chapter 16
16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
16:8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."
(Mark 16:1-9).
"Chapter 24
1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
8 And they remembered his words,
9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles." (Luke 24:1-9).
www.bible.ca/d-3-days-and...hts.htm#IX
explains it greatly as well. Let the truth be told though the heavens fall.
pitbull wrote:
Just how is the New Covenant different from the Old? Where does any passage that refers to it say it is changed? Jer.31.31-34? Nope. Heb.8? Nope. In Hebrews 8.7, 13, and 9.1, the word covenant is supplied by the translators and shows their doctrinal bias. If we leave those words out, the word 'first' refers back to the noun 'ministry', and the ministry of the Melchizedek priesthood is DEFINITELY different that the ministry of the Levitical priesthood.
Response: There is plenty of evidence that that new covenant is different from the Old. The Bible says that we arent under the law (Rom. 6:14; Gal. 5:1.
Jer. 31:32-34 states in prophecy that God will have a new law from the old indeed. Also, Hebrews 7:12 outlines that God will change his law. Romans 10:4 proves that the old law is dead not required for believers in Jesus Christ. This sematics game doesnt work pitbull. One simple example is that in the Old law, there were priests who handled the religious affairs of the Temple. Now, in the New Law, the priesthood is changed into all believers are priests as mentioned forth in the Bible whether you like it or not. The word covenant outlines a reality and you saying that covenant was supplanted by the translators shows a hatred of the New Law. The Bible perfectly says that by the cross, the new law came into existence and much of the Old Law isnt a requirement for Christians to follow at all. Even Romans Rom. 14:5-6 say that a man can worship on anyday they want with no basic consequences. The ministry of the Levitical priesthood is also different from the universal priesthood of believers outlined in Hebrews. I reject Judaizers. Primarily Melchizedek relates to Christ and is no consequence about this subject. Take it as you wish.
pitbull wrote:
The only difference between the 'old' Covenant and the 'new' covenant is the medium on which it is inscribed, hearts of flesh vice tables of stone.
Response: There are tons of differences between the Old and New covenant:
-Christians arent required to follow many man-made laws and holidays after salvation like Jubilee, the Sabbath, etc. I have no problem though with folks celebrating Passover or the Feast of Tabernacles who are Christians.
-The Old law included the ceremonial and moral components of the Torah while the new law emphasizes the following of the moral law to have a better spiritual relationship with God. (i.e. The NT perfect says that we cant murder, commit adultery, steal, etc.)
-The New law offers better promises and eliminates animal sacrifice (Hebrews 8:6, 9:23-10:12). Romans 6:14 says that were not under the law, but under grace.
pitbull wrote:
Those who kept sunday before the Edict of Milan (320's CE) were syncretizers, attempting to paganize the Messianic faith. Constantine forced it on the entire empire and those who would not compromise were either killed or escaped to the hills (the Waldenses and Albigenses come to mind). Today, the lie of 'sunday' sanctity, which was instituted by Pope Constantine I, is so ingrained in society that Sabbath keeping is seen as DISobedience!
Response: This is the biggest falsehood of them all. There are tons of examples of Sunday worshipping Christians before the 325 AD. One example is from Acts 20:7 which states that on the first day, Christians broke bread. 1 Cor. 16:1-2, Acts 20:7, Acts 2:1) are evidence of Believers worshipping on the First Day of the Week. Many early church leaders like Ignatius (disciple of John) and early works like DIDACHE outline that worship by Christians were held in Sunday. To label legitiamate Christians who wanted to celebrate the Lord's Day and as syncretizers is very said and disrespectful. The Albigenses were Gnostics and heretics. Mainstream historians have proven this before so you cant make the charge of this accusation being false:
"Officially known as heretics, they were actually Cathari, Provenal adherents of a doctrine similar to the Manichaean dualistic system of material evil and spiritual good (see Manichaeism; Bogomils). They held the coexistence of these two principles, represented by God and the Evil One, light and dark, the soul and the body, the next life and this life, peace and war, and the like. They believed that Jesus only seemed to have a human body. 2
The Albigenses were extremely ascetic, abstaining from flesh in all its forms, including milk and cheese. They comprised two classes, believers and Perfect, the former much more numerous, making up a catechumenate not bound by the stricter rules observed by the Perfect. The Perfect were those who had received the sacrament of consolamentum, a kind of laying on of hands. The Albigenses held their clergy in high regard. An occasional practice was suicide, preferably by starvation; for if this life is essentially evil, its end is to be hastened. 3
They had enthusiasm for proselytizing and preached vigorously. This fact partly accounted for their success, for at that time preaching was unknown in ordinary parish life. In the practice of asceticism as well, the contrast between local clergy and the Albigenses was helpful to the new sect." (The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.)
The Waldensians were believers, but many bible believers worshipped on Saturday and Sunday and that isnt evil nor a sin at all. Constatine did allow of bad things, but he didnt institute Sunday worship since believers were worshipping on Sunday before 100 A.D. Also to claim that he did it is a Lie. The Sabbath isn't changed, but the Lord's Day was adopted to commerate the Resurrection of Christ in the New Law. The Sabbath was part of Mosaic law to commerate God's creation and the escape of Hebrew out of the bondage from Egypt. There is no change, but an addition of the Lord's Day for worship and celebration. I dont believe that folks worshipping on the Sabbath isnt disobedient. Thats their choice and they have a right to do that.
pitbull wrote:
These have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Covenant, which was given in Ex.20-23. Animal sacrifices FOR TRESPASSES AND SINS were required after the Hebrews broke the Covenant with the golden calf - AND NOT BEFORE!
Response: Animal sacrifices were definitely part of the Old covenant and many Hebrews did it in Jesus time. The Old law is more than the 10 commandments but includes thousands of rules and regulations that are required for those living in the times before and during the arrival of Christ. That is something a lot of law keepers don't mention in their literature lately.
pitbull wrote:
We refer to EVERY day by a pagan name. That is another gift of the Roman Catholic system. Don't blame Sabbath keepers for it.
Response: I blame the Roman Catholic system for it and many Sabbath keepers scaring people to believe that if you dont have Sabbath keeping, youre going to Hell which they promote in their literature and false dogma.
pitbull wrote:
That's right. To ALL Israel, not just the Jews. After Solomon, references to Israel are USUALLY about the 10 northern tribes, while references to Judah always refer to the 3 southern tribes. This includes the 'new' Covenant (Jer.31, Heb. . When Israel (10 tribes) were carried away by Assyria, they were easily assimilated into the nations since they'd been practicing paganism for hundreds of years (and calling their golden calves 'yhwh"). The were assimilated and have never been a nation or tribe since. They are essentially 'lost' to human history. But NOT to YHWH Yeshua. He knows every child of Israel, even those born in America or China. YOU could be one of them. I am.
Response: Israel included the Jews which you and I agree on. After the Assyrian Captivity, there is plenty evidence of many of the lost tribes returning back to Israel. One example you fail to mention is the Paul was from Tarsus and visited Israel many times and he was of the Tribe of Benjamin. Also, many of the lost tribes are proven to be in many regions of the world that are identifiable. Jew is used synonymously with Hebrew in Jeremiah 34:9. Mordecai was called a Jew although he was from the tribe of Benjamin (Esther 2:5).
2 Chronicles 34:5-9 actually make mentions of some of the lost 10 tribes returning back to Israel. Genetically and historically much of the so-called Lost Tribes are throughout the World (mainly in India, parts of Central Asia, and even some parts of Africa). Anna the Prophetess was of the tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36). Paul mentioned all twelve tribes. (Acts 26:6,7) and James mentioned all twelve tribes as well. (James 1:1) How can all 10 tribes be gone forever without a trace when Asher and Benjamin are mentioned existing in the vicinity of the Middle East after the Assyrian Captivity.
I will in 2005 list over a dozen verses to prove that many of the Lost Tribes existed after the captivity because of the half-truths indeed. 1 Peter 1:1 refers to them as part of the Dispersion. They arent all lost in human history. By the time of the NT, the words Jew and Israel are interchangeably used in the Bible. Even Acts 18:2 had 2 Jewish people were from Pontus not Israel. So, being a Jew doesnt mean youre specifically from the tribe of Judah. Before the Captivity, indeed there was a distinction between Jews and the rest of the 10 tribes.
pitbull wrote:
Please don't be ludicrous. Messiah NEVER broke any commandment. He IS Torah, for Pete's sake. To forsake any part of Torah is to forsake himself.
Response: I give you that Christ never broke any commandment but came to fulfill the Law, etc.
pitbull wrote:
TS24 wrote; "there is no verse in the New Testament that requires us to follow it to be saved at all. There is no evidence of Christians required to worship on the Sabbath to be saved."
Response: Jesus is our real Sabbath and Lord over the Sabbath.
Pitbull: No duh! Salvation is not by any works we can do. It is by the grace of YHWH through the faith of Yeshua, not by anything we can do. We keep sabbath to keep our souls from sin, which is the transgression of Torah (1Jn.3.4).
Response: Yeah, thats true that Jesus is our real Sabbath and Lord over the Sabbath. So, we agree thats true then why do you obsess with the Sabbath being part of the New law when it isnt. There is no verse in the Bible that to keep the Sabbath keep our souls from sin. The commandments in the Bible in a lot of instances exceed the 10 commandments or dont mention them at all. For example in John 13:34, Christ said that his new commandment was to love one another. The commandments mention in John refers to the word of God not explicitly of the 10 commandments. We are to follow 9 of them in our new covenant and again the Sabbath is voluntarily not mandatory for Christians to follow at all. .
And if you were really following the Sabbath, according to the OT, you need to (1) Doing no work. (Ex. 20:9-10) (2) No baking or boiling. (Ex. 16:23) (3) Bearing no burden. (Jer. 17:21-22) (4) Offering two lambs. (Num. 28:9-10). If you fail to do that and other actions, you therefore are breaking the Sabbath. God broke the Old Law by the Cross alone. If youre serious about following the Law, the Bible says that if you break one rule of the Old law, then youre guilty of all of them. (James 2:10) The Sabbath was a sign between God and the Children of Israel for a perpetual covenant not for the Church. ( Ezekiel 20:13, 20) The Church is different from Israel. Not to mention that you have to follow thousands of other rules in the Old Law as well.
If Bible-Believers/Fundamentals/Evangelicals are tired of the Adventist/Sabbath-keeping propaganda, you can go to:
watch.pair.com/sabbath.html
www.biblebelievers.com/Caldwell1.html
www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/...dventi.htm
www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/...martin.htm
www.jesus-is-lord.com/sabbath.htm
www.letusreason.org/7thAd15.htm
By Timothy
_________________
7 CITIES
NORFOLK
PORTSMOUTH
HAMPTON
CHESAPEAKE
NEWPORT NEWS
VIRGINIA BEACH
SUFFOLK
I like this response.
2 Corinthians 3:6-17 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW TESTAMENT; not of the LETTER (the law), but of the SPIRIT: for the LETTER KILLETH, but the spirit giveth LIFE. But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH (the law), written and engraven in STONES (the 10 commandments), WAS GLORIOUS, so that the children of ISRAEL could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be DONE AWAY: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of CONDEMNATION (the law) be glory, much more doth the ministration of RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in THIS RESPECT, by reason of the glory that EXCELLED. For if that which IS DONE AWAY (the law) was glorious, much more that which REMAINETH is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to THE END of that which IS ABOLISHED: But their minds were BLINDED (Rom 11:25): for until this day remaineth the same VAIL untaken away in the reading of the OLD TESTAMENT; which vail is DONE AWAY IN CHRIST. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is LIBERTY."
Hebrews 8:6-8 "But now hath he obtained a MORE EXCELLENT ministry, by how much also HE (Jesus Christ) is the mediator of a BETTER COVENANT, which was established upon BETTER PROMISES. For if that first covenant had been FAULTLESS, then should NO PLACE have been sought for the SECOND. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of ISRAEL and with the house of Judah."
Romans 6:14 " For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
Gal 3:10 "For as many as are of the WORKS of the law are UNDER THE CURSE: for it is written, CURSED is everyone that continueth not in ALL THINGS which are written in the law to DO THEM."
*Indeed this is my final response to the issue and you can respond to it as you wish.
pitbull wrote:
The one does not logically follow the other. Just because I'm not supposed to judge you on the day you worship doesn't preclude the requirement to keep the Sabbath. BTW, that's a falacious arguement, since we are not to allow others to judge US on the day we commemorate (Col.2.16), among other things.
Response: It isnt a fallacious argument despite your word games. This is a slick sematic game by you. First, I purely stated a fact that Col. 2:16 forbids us to judge people what we eat or what day we worship. That isnt complicated and that is a simple statement that doesnt need to be criticized. Second, allowing others includes anyone (believer or non-believer) so this sematic game isnt working. Col 2:14 perfectly states that this works dogma of mandatory Sabbath Keeping is nailed to the cross never to be repeated again. I don't judge people worshipping on Saturday if they want, but I do have a right to criticize those who believe that this is Mandatory for all Christians to do. Once again, The New Testament never outlines the Sabbath as a mandatory requirement for all believers to follow at all. I'm believing in Christianity not obsolete Judaism.
pitbull wrote:
Excuse me?!? On the 7th day of the universe's history Yeshua observed the Sabbath. The children of Israel observed the Sabbath BEFORE the Covenant was given from Sinai, and YHWH expected them to observe it, was wroth when they didn't. Remember the double portion of manna on the 6th day and the commandment to NOT go out to gather it on the 7th day in Ex.16? Covenant was spoken in Ex.20. The Sabbath was miraculously set apart at least 3 ways BEFORE the covenant; 1) the double portion on the 6th day, 2) no provision on the 7th day, 3) the extra portion from the 6th day did not spoil overnight, as on the other days. The celebration of Christians (mostly on Sundays) commerates the resurrection of Christ from the dead." But Messiah rose on Sabbath afternoon, just before sundown! What has 1st day (sunday) got to do with it? Go ahead. Ask me to prove it.
Response: Your rhetoric is astounding to me. On the 7th Day, God rested and there is no evidence that Adam, Noah, Abraham or anyone alse before the Exodus 16 observed the Sabbath. There is not even a word of the Sabbath in Genesis and thats a fact you refuse to accept. The children of Israel observing the Sabbath is true in Exodus 16, but this was the first time in the Bible that God required the Hebrews to observe the Sabbath. Before Ex. 16, there were no evidence of anyone observing it or doing rituals to fulfill it all all. As for when Christ rose from the dead:
Jesus wasn't crucified after the Sabbath, but he rose again after the Sabbath (the Sabbath ends at sundown, there is no Sabbath after sundown and the Bible perfectly states that). Look at these verses to clear your distortion:
"1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay." (Mt. 28:1-6)
"Chapter 16
16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
16:8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."
(Mark 16:1-9).
"Chapter 24
1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
8 And they remembered his words,
9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles." (Luke 24:1-9).
www.bible.ca/d-3-days-and...hts.htm#IX
explains it greatly as well. Let the truth be told though the heavens fall.
pitbull wrote:
Just how is the New Covenant different from the Old? Where does any passage that refers to it say it is changed? Jer.31.31-34? Nope. Heb.8? Nope. In Hebrews 8.7, 13, and 9.1, the word covenant is supplied by the translators and shows their doctrinal bias. If we leave those words out, the word 'first' refers back to the noun 'ministry', and the ministry of the Melchizedek priesthood is DEFINITELY different that the ministry of the Levitical priesthood.
Response: There is plenty of evidence that that new covenant is different from the Old. The Bible says that we arent under the law (Rom. 6:14; Gal. 5:1.
Jer. 31:32-34 states in prophecy that God will have a new law from the old indeed. Also, Hebrews 7:12 outlines that God will change his law. Romans 10:4 proves that the old law is dead not required for believers in Jesus Christ. This sematics game doesnt work pitbull. One simple example is that in the Old law, there were priests who handled the religious affairs of the Temple. Now, in the New Law, the priesthood is changed into all believers are priests as mentioned forth in the Bible whether you like it or not. The word covenant outlines a reality and you saying that covenant was supplanted by the translators shows a hatred of the New Law. The Bible perfectly says that by the cross, the new law came into existence and much of the Old Law isnt a requirement for Christians to follow at all. Even Romans Rom. 14:5-6 say that a man can worship on anyday they want with no basic consequences. The ministry of the Levitical priesthood is also different from the universal priesthood of believers outlined in Hebrews. I reject Judaizers. Primarily Melchizedek relates to Christ and is no consequence about this subject. Take it as you wish.
pitbull wrote:
The only difference between the 'old' Covenant and the 'new' covenant is the medium on which it is inscribed, hearts of flesh vice tables of stone.
Response: There are tons of differences between the Old and New covenant:
-Christians arent required to follow many man-made laws and holidays after salvation like Jubilee, the Sabbath, etc. I have no problem though with folks celebrating Passover or the Feast of Tabernacles who are Christians.
-The Old law included the ceremonial and moral components of the Torah while the new law emphasizes the following of the moral law to have a better spiritual relationship with God. (i.e. The NT perfect says that we cant murder, commit adultery, steal, etc.)
-The New law offers better promises and eliminates animal sacrifice (Hebrews 8:6, 9:23-10:12). Romans 6:14 says that were not under the law, but under grace.
pitbull wrote:
Those who kept sunday before the Edict of Milan (320's CE) were syncretizers, attempting to paganize the Messianic faith. Constantine forced it on the entire empire and those who would not compromise were either killed or escaped to the hills (the Waldenses and Albigenses come to mind). Today, the lie of 'sunday' sanctity, which was instituted by Pope Constantine I, is so ingrained in society that Sabbath keeping is seen as DISobedience!
Response: This is the biggest falsehood of them all. There are tons of examples of Sunday worshipping Christians before the 325 AD. One example is from Acts 20:7 which states that on the first day, Christians broke bread. 1 Cor. 16:1-2, Acts 20:7, Acts 2:1) are evidence of Believers worshipping on the First Day of the Week. Many early church leaders like Ignatius (disciple of John) and early works like DIDACHE outline that worship by Christians were held in Sunday. To label legitiamate Christians who wanted to celebrate the Lord's Day and as syncretizers is very said and disrespectful. The Albigenses were Gnostics and heretics. Mainstream historians have proven this before so you cant make the charge of this accusation being false:
"Officially known as heretics, they were actually Cathari, Provenal adherents of a doctrine similar to the Manichaean dualistic system of material evil and spiritual good (see Manichaeism; Bogomils). They held the coexistence of these two principles, represented by God and the Evil One, light and dark, the soul and the body, the next life and this life, peace and war, and the like. They believed that Jesus only seemed to have a human body. 2
The Albigenses were extremely ascetic, abstaining from flesh in all its forms, including milk and cheese. They comprised two classes, believers and Perfect, the former much more numerous, making up a catechumenate not bound by the stricter rules observed by the Perfect. The Perfect were those who had received the sacrament of consolamentum, a kind of laying on of hands. The Albigenses held their clergy in high regard. An occasional practice was suicide, preferably by starvation; for if this life is essentially evil, its end is to be hastened. 3
They had enthusiasm for proselytizing and preached vigorously. This fact partly accounted for their success, for at that time preaching was unknown in ordinary parish life. In the practice of asceticism as well, the contrast between local clergy and the Albigenses was helpful to the new sect." (The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.)
The Waldensians were believers, but many bible believers worshipped on Saturday and Sunday and that isnt evil nor a sin at all. Constatine did allow of bad things, but he didnt institute Sunday worship since believers were worshipping on Sunday before 100 A.D. Also to claim that he did it is a Lie. The Sabbath isn't changed, but the Lord's Day was adopted to commerate the Resurrection of Christ in the New Law. The Sabbath was part of Mosaic law to commerate God's creation and the escape of Hebrew out of the bondage from Egypt. There is no change, but an addition of the Lord's Day for worship and celebration. I dont believe that folks worshipping on the Sabbath isnt disobedient. Thats their choice and they have a right to do that.
pitbull wrote:
These have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Covenant, which was given in Ex.20-23. Animal sacrifices FOR TRESPASSES AND SINS were required after the Hebrews broke the Covenant with the golden calf - AND NOT BEFORE!
Response: Animal sacrifices were definitely part of the Old covenant and many Hebrews did it in Jesus time. The Old law is more than the 10 commandments but includes thousands of rules and regulations that are required for those living in the times before and during the arrival of Christ. That is something a lot of law keepers don't mention in their literature lately.
pitbull wrote:
We refer to EVERY day by a pagan name. That is another gift of the Roman Catholic system. Don't blame Sabbath keepers for it.
Response: I blame the Roman Catholic system for it and many Sabbath keepers scaring people to believe that if you dont have Sabbath keeping, youre going to Hell which they promote in their literature and false dogma.
pitbull wrote:
That's right. To ALL Israel, not just the Jews. After Solomon, references to Israel are USUALLY about the 10 northern tribes, while references to Judah always refer to the 3 southern tribes. This includes the 'new' Covenant (Jer.31, Heb. . When Israel (10 tribes) were carried away by Assyria, they were easily assimilated into the nations since they'd been practicing paganism for hundreds of years (and calling their golden calves 'yhwh"). The were assimilated and have never been a nation or tribe since. They are essentially 'lost' to human history. But NOT to YHWH Yeshua. He knows every child of Israel, even those born in America or China. YOU could be one of them. I am.
Response: Israel included the Jews which you and I agree on. After the Assyrian Captivity, there is plenty evidence of many of the lost tribes returning back to Israel. One example you fail to mention is the Paul was from Tarsus and visited Israel many times and he was of the Tribe of Benjamin. Also, many of the lost tribes are proven to be in many regions of the world that are identifiable. Jew is used synonymously with Hebrew in Jeremiah 34:9. Mordecai was called a Jew although he was from the tribe of Benjamin (Esther 2:5).
2 Chronicles 34:5-9 actually make mentions of some of the lost 10 tribes returning back to Israel. Genetically and historically much of the so-called Lost Tribes are throughout the World (mainly in India, parts of Central Asia, and even some parts of Africa). Anna the Prophetess was of the tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36). Paul mentioned all twelve tribes. (Acts 26:6,7) and James mentioned all twelve tribes as well. (James 1:1) How can all 10 tribes be gone forever without a trace when Asher and Benjamin are mentioned existing in the vicinity of the Middle East after the Assyrian Captivity.
I will in 2005 list over a dozen verses to prove that many of the Lost Tribes existed after the captivity because of the half-truths indeed. 1 Peter 1:1 refers to them as part of the Dispersion. They arent all lost in human history. By the time of the NT, the words Jew and Israel are interchangeably used in the Bible. Even Acts 18:2 had 2 Jewish people were from Pontus not Israel. So, being a Jew doesnt mean youre specifically from the tribe of Judah. Before the Captivity, indeed there was a distinction between Jews and the rest of the 10 tribes.
pitbull wrote:
Please don't be ludicrous. Messiah NEVER broke any commandment. He IS Torah, for Pete's sake. To forsake any part of Torah is to forsake himself.
Response: I give you that Christ never broke any commandment but came to fulfill the Law, etc.
pitbull wrote:
TS24 wrote; "there is no verse in the New Testament that requires us to follow it to be saved at all. There is no evidence of Christians required to worship on the Sabbath to be saved."
Response: Jesus is our real Sabbath and Lord over the Sabbath.
Pitbull: No duh! Salvation is not by any works we can do. It is by the grace of YHWH through the faith of Yeshua, not by anything we can do. We keep sabbath to keep our souls from sin, which is the transgression of Torah (1Jn.3.4).
Response: Yeah, thats true that Jesus is our real Sabbath and Lord over the Sabbath. So, we agree thats true then why do you obsess with the Sabbath being part of the New law when it isnt. There is no verse in the Bible that to keep the Sabbath keep our souls from sin. The commandments in the Bible in a lot of instances exceed the 10 commandments or dont mention them at all. For example in John 13:34, Christ said that his new commandment was to love one another. The commandments mention in John refers to the word of God not explicitly of the 10 commandments. We are to follow 9 of them in our new covenant and again the Sabbath is voluntarily not mandatory for Christians to follow at all. .
And if you were really following the Sabbath, according to the OT, you need to (1) Doing no work. (Ex. 20:9-10) (2) No baking or boiling. (Ex. 16:23) (3) Bearing no burden. (Jer. 17:21-22) (4) Offering two lambs. (Num. 28:9-10). If you fail to do that and other actions, you therefore are breaking the Sabbath. God broke the Old Law by the Cross alone. If youre serious about following the Law, the Bible says that if you break one rule of the Old law, then youre guilty of all of them. (James 2:10) The Sabbath was a sign between God and the Children of Israel for a perpetual covenant not for the Church. ( Ezekiel 20:13, 20) The Church is different from Israel. Not to mention that you have to follow thousands of other rules in the Old Law as well.
If Bible-Believers/Fundamentals/Evangelicals are tired of the Adventist/Sabbath-keeping propaganda, you can go to:
watch.pair.com/sabbath.html
www.biblebelievers.com/Caldwell1.html
www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/...dventi.htm
www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/...martin.htm
www.jesus-is-lord.com/sabbath.htm
www.letusreason.org/7thAd15.htm
By Timothy
_________________
7 CITIES
NORFOLK
PORTSMOUTH
HAMPTON
CHESAPEAKE
NEWPORT NEWS
VIRGINIA BEACH
SUFFOLK
Friday, November 13, 2009
HAARP
HAARP=High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program:
HAARP is based in Gakana, Alaska. According to their own site, they do have high power, high frequency (HF), and ionosphere Research Instrument or IRI used to stimulate well defined volumes of the ionosphere, UHF (ultra-high frequency), ISR (incoherent scatter radar), used to measure electron densities, ion temperatures, electron, and Doppler velocities in the natural ionosphere. The HAARP system is a reversal of a radio telescope antenna sending out signals instead of receiving. Its the test run of a super-powerful radio wave beaming technology-lifting areas of the ionosphere by focusing a beam and heating those areas.
What the problem with HAARP? Its one of the new intrusions by the U.S. government to the people using once again Nikola Teslas secret technology to boil or zap the upper atmosphere (ionosphere). [The ionosphere is an electrically-charge sphere, which surrounds the Earths upper atmosphere and ranges between 40 to 60 miles above the surface of the Earth.] According to Bernard J. Eastland, the technology can disrupt airplanes and missiles guidance system, interfere with communications, put unprecedented amounts of power in the Earths atmosphere as well, and has the potential for extreme weather modification.
More Background info on HAARP:
HAARP became a patent by June 1994 originally controlled by ARCO Power Technologies Incorporated (APTI), a subsidiary of Atlantic Richfield Company of the biggest oil companies in the world.
APTI was the contractor that bail to the HAARP facility and ARCO sold this subsidiary, the patients, and the second phase construction contract to E-Systems in June 1994. E-System is one of the most powerful defense contractors in the world with the CIA, defense, intelligence organizations, black projects, and others. Bernard J. Eastland has the U.S. Patent # 4,686,605 Method and Apparatus for Alterning a Region in the Earths Atmosphere.
Even Elizabeth Rauscher, a Ph.D. with a great career in high=energy physics and published excellent science journals and books commented on HAARP: Youre pumping tremendous energy into an extremely dedicate substance using too much damage to the ionosphere like HAARP has a high risk for it to pope and become destroyed.
More concerns are expressed by David Yarrow of Albany, New York, is a researcher with a background in electronics. He said that the interactions of HAARP radiations with the ionosphere and Earths magnetic grid will lead the HAARP will burn holes in the ionosphere. That is a dangerous understatement of what HAARPs giant gigawatt beam will do. Earths axial spin means that HAARP in a burst lasting more than a few minutes will slice through the ionosphere like a microwave knife. This produces not a hole, but a long tear an incision.
As early as 1966, Professor Gordon I. F. MacDonald [Associate Director of the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at the University of California, Los Angeles] created ideas for the government to use environmental-orientated weapons for the government.
In fact, the U.S. government secretly used HAARP-like technology in the early 1960s. The book called Angels Dont Play This HAARP: Advanced in Tesla Technology by Dr. Nick Begich and Jeane Manning is one of the best sources to investigate the destructive device of HAARP.
Mental Manipulation or Brainwashing People:
It can control peoples minds with these EM (Electromagnetic) systems to produce mild to severe physiological disruption or perceptual distortion or disorientation.
The U.S. Air Force documents revealed that a system had been developed for manipulating and disrupting human mental processes through pulsed radio-frequency (the stuff of HAARP) over large geographical areas. Zbigniew Brzezinski (Polish, former National Security Advisor to President Carter and one of the founders of the Trilateral Commission) wrote that electromagnetic technology could control the brain and human behavior as early as 1970.
It was Brzezinski as early as 1970 that predicted that a more controlled and directed society would gradually appear, linked to technology (or a technocracy), but the catch was it was to be run by the elite for controlling society.
The Technocracy as the elite coined created the modern internet [the internet was derived from CIA black-tech projects from the early 1960s used in the 1970s-1980s in colleges and presented to the world populace by ca. 1992] Columbine, Unabomber, and other events are planned with involvement by the Illuminati by their HAARP technology.
It could short-circuit the earth and no government or organization could possess a device like HAARP if it possesses so much risk on our world. The United States government has other means to try to brainwash us by the TV screen devices, and other inventions.
HAARP is based in Gakana, Alaska. According to their own site, they do have high power, high frequency (HF), and ionosphere Research Instrument or IRI used to stimulate well defined volumes of the ionosphere, UHF (ultra-high frequency), ISR (incoherent scatter radar), used to measure electron densities, ion temperatures, electron, and Doppler velocities in the natural ionosphere. The HAARP system is a reversal of a radio telescope antenna sending out signals instead of receiving. Its the test run of a super-powerful radio wave beaming technology-lifting areas of the ionosphere by focusing a beam and heating those areas.
What the problem with HAARP? Its one of the new intrusions by the U.S. government to the people using once again Nikola Teslas secret technology to boil or zap the upper atmosphere (ionosphere). [The ionosphere is an electrically-charge sphere, which surrounds the Earths upper atmosphere and ranges between 40 to 60 miles above the surface of the Earth.] According to Bernard J. Eastland, the technology can disrupt airplanes and missiles guidance system, interfere with communications, put unprecedented amounts of power in the Earths atmosphere as well, and has the potential for extreme weather modification.
More Background info on HAARP:
HAARP became a patent by June 1994 originally controlled by ARCO Power Technologies Incorporated (APTI), a subsidiary of Atlantic Richfield Company of the biggest oil companies in the world.
APTI was the contractor that bail to the HAARP facility and ARCO sold this subsidiary, the patients, and the second phase construction contract to E-Systems in June 1994. E-System is one of the most powerful defense contractors in the world with the CIA, defense, intelligence organizations, black projects, and others. Bernard J. Eastland has the U.S. Patent # 4,686,605 Method and Apparatus for Alterning a Region in the Earths Atmosphere.
Even Elizabeth Rauscher, a Ph.D. with a great career in high=energy physics and published excellent science journals and books commented on HAARP: Youre pumping tremendous energy into an extremely dedicate substance using too much damage to the ionosphere like HAARP has a high risk for it to pope and become destroyed.
More concerns are expressed by David Yarrow of Albany, New York, is a researcher with a background in electronics. He said that the interactions of HAARP radiations with the ionosphere and Earths magnetic grid will lead the HAARP will burn holes in the ionosphere. That is a dangerous understatement of what HAARPs giant gigawatt beam will do. Earths axial spin means that HAARP in a burst lasting more than a few minutes will slice through the ionosphere like a microwave knife. This produces not a hole, but a long tear an incision.
As early as 1966, Professor Gordon I. F. MacDonald [Associate Director of the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at the University of California, Los Angeles] created ideas for the government to use environmental-orientated weapons for the government.
In fact, the U.S. government secretly used HAARP-like technology in the early 1960s. The book called Angels Dont Play This HAARP: Advanced in Tesla Technology by Dr. Nick Begich and Jeane Manning is one of the best sources to investigate the destructive device of HAARP.
Mental Manipulation or Brainwashing People:
It can control peoples minds with these EM (Electromagnetic) systems to produce mild to severe physiological disruption or perceptual distortion or disorientation.
The U.S. Air Force documents revealed that a system had been developed for manipulating and disrupting human mental processes through pulsed radio-frequency (the stuff of HAARP) over large geographical areas. Zbigniew Brzezinski (Polish, former National Security Advisor to President Carter and one of the founders of the Trilateral Commission) wrote that electromagnetic technology could control the brain and human behavior as early as 1970.
It was Brzezinski as early as 1970 that predicted that a more controlled and directed society would gradually appear, linked to technology (or a technocracy), but the catch was it was to be run by the elite for controlling society.
The Technocracy as the elite coined created the modern internet [the internet was derived from CIA black-tech projects from the early 1960s used in the 1970s-1980s in colleges and presented to the world populace by ca. 1992] Columbine, Unabomber, and other events are planned with involvement by the Illuminati by their HAARP technology.
It could short-circuit the earth and no government or organization could possess a device like HAARP if it possesses so much risk on our world. The United States government has other means to try to brainwash us by the TV screen devices, and other inventions.
China
China
What a wonderful land, what a rich history, culture, and society part of God's wonderful creation. Before listing the many problems existing within China. It's time to show background for you can't know the foreground without background.
China existed with species of animals and humans for many years in prehistoric day. The first dynasty after the Flood was Xia which was created in 2284 B.C. Later many other dynasties preceded it like Shang, Liu, etc. Now in the 1800's, China was colonized by many European nations who wanted opium, trade, and exploit their natural resources for lust and gain. Godless philiosophies like Communism reined in by the 1940's. During WWII, the Japanese made China embrassed ruling them for years and when the Allies won, a democracy was established for a temporary time by 33rd Freemason who was Chiang Kaishek (a 33 Degree Mason).
Situations were going good until we betrayed him in 1948 by instilling a Communist revolution there. The USA used American tanks in January 31, 1949 to Peking to install the mass murderer Mao Zedong. Mao Zedong supported gun control, population control, restrictions of God-given civil liberties and rights, killing of dissidents and other fascist precepts.
Isn't this ironic. THE COLD WAR WAS A HOAX. The only reason we had the Cold War was to increase the power of the USA and Soviet Union to a point and eliminate the Soviet Union into a republic then form a New World Order worldwide. This was all planned in the beginning since the Illuminatus Rockefeller shock hands with a Russian leader in the 1960's and even supplied the Russians with tanks and supplies before the Berlin Wall fell.
They should be on trial for treasonous activities, but the Illuminati runs this world and they can continue in their decadant, degrading behavior. For more than 50 years after 1949, China is in a state of totaliarism. Christians who are independent are forced on the underground and get this that Pat Robertson is now supporting the Chinese government in a treasonous matter.
Pat Robertson's father bankrolled Prescott Bush and Bush financed the Nazis in WWII as you know. With that in mind it doesn't suprise me Pat's treason. Pat now unforunately was a good Christian but now is in the palms of the Council of National Policy and Moon for at least 1-2 decades now. Another traitor is Richard Nixon who was the first President to formally support China. Richard Nixon had Nazi ties since 1945 after WWII when he was finishing up his Naval job and came into politics anyway. Bush also supported China in the 1970's.
Also, a strong free speech is restricted and civil rights are belittled. That nation has also been with the U.N. for decades. That tells me that the U.N. is a COMMUNIST SATANIC JOKE. The U.N. claims it wants to preserve and better humanity, yet send a communist dictatorship as member and won't consider a republican/democratic nation of Taiwan in acceptance? How hyprocritical. The U.N. 's main purpose is to accept criminals and evil folks then strict soverignties of nations worldwide. That's what they will ever be since they were formed directly by the Illuminati.
We must support all Chinese dissidents for promoting liberty and hope they will find liberty and freedom in the future. We must also support Chinese people coming to America to fully there dreams and aspiration like artists, muscians, even althetes like Yao Ming. We must not support a bad government by giving them trade status in a major organization like the WTO, but we must never restrict innocent people or civilans within a country to not live on with their life or Livelihood.
In biblical prophecy in Revelations, the Chinese will have a 200 million force to invade Israel so you can watch for that in the future and also today the Chinese have 200 million man-army including all registered soliders in or out of uniform.
By TruthSeeker
SOLA SCRIPTURA
SOLA FIDE
SOLA GRATIA
SOLA GLORIA DEO
SOLA CHRISTO
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
September 25, 2003
9:48 am. EST
What a wonderful land, what a rich history, culture, and society part of God's wonderful creation. Before listing the many problems existing within China. It's time to show background for you can't know the foreground without background.
China existed with species of animals and humans for many years in prehistoric day. The first dynasty after the Flood was Xia which was created in 2284 B.C. Later many other dynasties preceded it like Shang, Liu, etc. Now in the 1800's, China was colonized by many European nations who wanted opium, trade, and exploit their natural resources for lust and gain. Godless philiosophies like Communism reined in by the 1940's. During WWII, the Japanese made China embrassed ruling them for years and when the Allies won, a democracy was established for a temporary time by 33rd Freemason who was Chiang Kaishek (a 33 Degree Mason).
Situations were going good until we betrayed him in 1948 by instilling a Communist revolution there. The USA used American tanks in January 31, 1949 to Peking to install the mass murderer Mao Zedong. Mao Zedong supported gun control, population control, restrictions of God-given civil liberties and rights, killing of dissidents and other fascist precepts.
Isn't this ironic. THE COLD WAR WAS A HOAX. The only reason we had the Cold War was to increase the power of the USA and Soviet Union to a point and eliminate the Soviet Union into a republic then form a New World Order worldwide. This was all planned in the beginning since the Illuminatus Rockefeller shock hands with a Russian leader in the 1960's and even supplied the Russians with tanks and supplies before the Berlin Wall fell.
They should be on trial for treasonous activities, but the Illuminati runs this world and they can continue in their decadant, degrading behavior. For more than 50 years after 1949, China is in a state of totaliarism. Christians who are independent are forced on the underground and get this that Pat Robertson is now supporting the Chinese government in a treasonous matter.
Pat Robertson's father bankrolled Prescott Bush and Bush financed the Nazis in WWII as you know. With that in mind it doesn't suprise me Pat's treason. Pat now unforunately was a good Christian but now is in the palms of the Council of National Policy and Moon for at least 1-2 decades now. Another traitor is Richard Nixon who was the first President to formally support China. Richard Nixon had Nazi ties since 1945 after WWII when he was finishing up his Naval job and came into politics anyway. Bush also supported China in the 1970's.
Also, a strong free speech is restricted and civil rights are belittled. That nation has also been with the U.N. for decades. That tells me that the U.N. is a COMMUNIST SATANIC JOKE. The U.N. claims it wants to preserve and better humanity, yet send a communist dictatorship as member and won't consider a republican/democratic nation of Taiwan in acceptance? How hyprocritical. The U.N. 's main purpose is to accept criminals and evil folks then strict soverignties of nations worldwide. That's what they will ever be since they were formed directly by the Illuminati.
We must support all Chinese dissidents for promoting liberty and hope they will find liberty and freedom in the future. We must also support Chinese people coming to America to fully there dreams and aspiration like artists, muscians, even althetes like Yao Ming. We must not support a bad government by giving them trade status in a major organization like the WTO, but we must never restrict innocent people or civilans within a country to not live on with their life or Livelihood.
In biblical prophecy in Revelations, the Chinese will have a 200 million force to invade Israel so you can watch for that in the future and also today the Chinese have 200 million man-army including all registered soliders in or out of uniform.
By TruthSeeker
SOLA SCRIPTURA
SOLA FIDE
SOLA GRATIA
SOLA GLORIA DEO
SOLA CHRISTO
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
September 25, 2003
9:48 am. EST
Globalization
The World Bank, IMF,
NAFTA, the WTO, and
GATT ought to be
eliminated immediately
(100% Anti-Globalization)
The elite can't rule the world without supervising its economic structures and they have. The essence of free trade presented by the globalists is a complete shame to ruin the middle class.
Organizations like the IMF (International Monetary Fund), GATT (Global Agreement on Trade and Tariffs), EU, APEC (Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation), and others follow the same order. Free trade only suits multinational corporations and monopolies.
It destroys small business that can't compete with multinationals because the international corporations can drive out competitors, move to other countries to form new economies with ease, and control the market price therefore leaving small to medium-sized businesses unable to do anything about it. Free trade bans tariffs, which is ludicrous. Tariffs increase the price of imports and prevent multinational companies from dumping products in the United States.
That also provides a sum of government revenue and further the burden on hard working Americans. Other achievements is that it decreases production of the quality of life of a country's industries and a transfer of wealth occurs leading to a lower standard of living in the area.
That will also grow unemployment to further transnational corporations to take charge over automation and cheap slave labor, especially in the Third World. They gain control in a process. First, they create substandard products to be replaced in a short span of time. Second, all quality, low-cost products and inventions are suppressed, so the population is forced to rely on the multinationals.
We have witnessed many lies about free trade greatly. Global and free trade just favors multinational companies and their products are a poorer quality and selection. As a result, many consumers find it difficult to trust producers, including small firms (these firms make good production, but they are overshadowe d by the larger industries).
Environmental land labor standards are never equally applied to many foreign countries, since the multinationals will lower these standards in Third World lands.
We have a $130 + billion deficit with China and a $100 billion deficit with India. This is neither free nor fair trade. One of the biggest falsehoods about the scourge of free trade is that greater production rights are given to Third World Nations to help the poor.
It only benefits the transnational with monopolies forming and the exploitation leading to almost all slave labor destroying most small businesses that can’t compete on that scale.
Millions of jobs from the U.S.A. manufacturing industry are shipped overseas because of this (i.e. stock-options or outsourcing and George W. Bush even called fast-food jobs manufacturing jobs in February 2004 which is silly).
Buying imported mass produced products seldom help small/medium-sized businesses, small manufacturers, or the average person in the countries they’re in. Most products in free trade are made by corrupt international corporations. Buying their products will only increase their power and make countries less independent. Folks are also deceived into giving aid to the Third World will improve the poor of those nations.
Sources dictate that more misdirected aid does more harm than good. That aid must be directly p roperly to improve the Third World. It’s true that some aid will help the poor, but most of it benefits the multinationals in developing corrupt governments (they in turn are made rich to misuse the money in wrong things such as funding wars). Aid enhances the World Bank (for fake bailouts) over the economic policies of many societies.
Then you have Privatization. Privatization is when a nation sells off its local assets (or publicly owned assets and services) to corrupt multinationals (internationalists=Illuminati) that control the price anyway.
They will regularly sell out to merge with world government so world government will be in control of all assets. Countries sell their assets to pay off their debts. If they don't surrender their assets and sovereignty to the power, they won't receive any trading loans. Big Government + Select Corporations = Privatization.
This is not capitalism at all, feudalis m since only a few dozen families control all of the economies of the world. Feudalism=the concentration of more and more wealth in the hands of the few then the elimination or the stifling of the many.
Deregulation is similar to this. Deregulation has the government to cap the retail price of electricity [below market prices], prevent long-term contracts, prevent long-term contracts, and limit the construction of new power plants by numerous regulations of all types of energy (this restricts free enterprise and benefits oligarchic companies like Enron, etc.) leading to massive blackouts.
Competition is great between companies that should be encouraged, but you can't have monopolies. Transnational Corporations are monopolies plan and simple. Central banks are gaining regulation over governments.
The U.S. dollar is depressed very low. Therefore, free trade and globalization=one world economy, one world currency, and total global government rule with only multinational corporations doing the buying and the selling.
NAFTA
President Clinton signed Executive Order 13107 or “The Implementation of Human Rights Treaties” which claimed that U.N. Human Rights standards must be enforeced in the U.S. We all want human rights, but to allow a Communist organization to force its laws unto us is morally repugnant.
The same description goes for NAFTA. President George H. W. Bush has pushed for NAFTA as early as the early 1990’s. It was President Bill Clinton who passed the oppressive NAFTA or the North American Free Trade Agreement at 1994. Fake conservative Rush Limbaugh supported NAFTA as well.
The Bilderberg Group seeks in their long-term agenda to expand NAFT throughout the Western Hemisphere to create the American Union like the EU ending sovereignty of countries and further establishing NATO as the UN’s world army. FTAA was formed as a NAFTA expansion. FTAA is made up of 34 countries in the Western Hemisphere (except Cuba).
Even David Rockefeller stated on tape that he wants the American Union by 2005. One of the main problems with NAFTA is that it gives too much corporate investment rights and protections that are unprecedented in scope and power.
NAFTA allows corporations to travel and sue the national government of a NAFTA country in secret tribunals if they feel that a regulation of a government decision effects the investment in conflict with new NAFTA rights.
If a corporation wins the suit, the taxpayer of the “losing” NAFTA nation must foot the bill. Article 1100, 1102, and 1105 of NAFTA deals with the issues with the World Bank and the U.N. handling many of the cases.
NAFTA very well may represent the 1st of a 10 Super Nation States or 10 Regions of the N.W.O. This was all prophesized at Daniel 17:7-8. Bill Lambert told Cutting Edge Ministries in a secret meeting about NAFTA and the 10 occult leaders of the 10 superpowers to form the N.W.O.
WTO
The WTO is one of the scourges of mankind and the world. The WTO is not a republican institution having 132-member nations.
The rules they exhort are by and for multinational corporations with even inside access for various negotiations. The U.S. Trade Representative relies on 17 “Industry Advisor Committees” to provide input into trade negotiations without the environment, human rights, consumer, and labor groups.
Request for information are denied and the proceedings are held in secret. The WTO strips human rights and solutions to labor and human rights abuses are ignored.
One rule is that it’s illegal for the government to ban a product based on the way it’s produced (i.e. even slave/child labor). Another one is that government within the WTO can’t take into account the behavior of companies that do business with various dictatorships like China or Burma.
They are anti- environment by even desiring to end a regulation of the Clean Air Act [a common sense law] and that would require foreign and domestic products to have cleaner gasoline illegal. The WTO wants to weaken Endangered Species Act on shrimp and sea turtles. The WTO also strips our national sovereignty.
The WTO has a supranational court system to economically enforce sanctions on nations that won’t comply with the WTO’s rulings.
The WTO has unselected, unaccountable, corporate backed government refusing to respect national government. Even an ex-head said: “We are uniting the constitution of a single global economy.” (Regnato Ruggier, former WTO-Director-General, Italy).
The Tyrannical Gestapo
S.S. Stormtroppers at
Miami, Florida
This was never reported to the mainstream media for the purpose of covering up Bush's tactics to crush protest. This was an ultimate disgrace to liberty and an example of evil brutality. Most of the protestors were peacefully held from November 17-21, 2003.
They restricted their Constitutional Rights. Those rights are the First Amendment (Freedom of Speech, Assembly, and Press), 4th Amendment (Protection against search and seizure without probable cause), 8th Amendment (Excessive bail shall not be imposed), and the 14th Amendment (Equal Protection under the Law).
Even John Timoneny, the Miami Chief of Police blatantly said that "If they engage in lawful activity, we're going arrest them" at November 20, 2003 making him a tyrant. The demonstrators rightfully opposed the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americans) with its evil multinational corporations and plots for Globalization (New World Order).
The police told the NY Times that there were about 8,000-10,000 protestors. The riot police shot at people with "pepper gas and rubber bullets 120 miles an hour into a small crowd of surrounded resisters who they could have contained." (Constitutional Rights Suspended in Miami by Frederick Sweet)
One woman signaled the "V" sign and was shot with a rubber bullet point blank for no reason. There were video footage of bloody faces and an officer shooting a woman with rubber bullets and even chasing away a young man kneeling in silent prayer.
Tanks were used as well. The Independent Media Center had 20 journalists with videotapes, but they weren't immediately shown to the public and 4 broadcast-quality video cameras were confiscated or broken as said by Sara Kendall (one of the journalists). The federal government gave $8.5 million to help Miami with security and Homeland SSecurity.
Civil rights organizations, the A.F.L. -C.I.O. and Amnesty International, a human rights organization, seeks an investigation of the whole incident. They truthfully outlined individuals arrested for no reason or cause , denial of restrooms, water and phones.
They are carrying a fake "war on terrorism" but a real "war on dissent" arbitrary assigning a label of "terrorist" for all those who disagree with the Bush Kingdom stripping our Constitutional rights as American citizens.
This is John Ashcoft's Gestapo dream for America. He's an enemy of freedom along with George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Cheney, Condolezza Rice, Paul Wolofowitz, and the rest within the Bush administration full of neo-con and Trotskyites.
By TruthSeeker24
March 25, 2004 A.D.
11:19 am. EST
SOLA SCRIPTURA
SOLA FIDE
SOLA GLORIA DEO
SOLA GRATIA
SOLA CHRISTO
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
SEMPER LIBER
NAFTA, the WTO, and
GATT ought to be
eliminated immediately
(100% Anti-Globalization)
The elite can't rule the world without supervising its economic structures and they have. The essence of free trade presented by the globalists is a complete shame to ruin the middle class.
Organizations like the IMF (International Monetary Fund), GATT (Global Agreement on Trade and Tariffs), EU, APEC (Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation), and others follow the same order. Free trade only suits multinational corporations and monopolies.
It destroys small business that can't compete with multinationals because the international corporations can drive out competitors, move to other countries to form new economies with ease, and control the market price therefore leaving small to medium-sized businesses unable to do anything about it. Free trade bans tariffs, which is ludicrous. Tariffs increase the price of imports and prevent multinational companies from dumping products in the United States.
That also provides a sum of government revenue and further the burden on hard working Americans. Other achievements is that it decreases production of the quality of life of a country's industries and a transfer of wealth occurs leading to a lower standard of living in the area.
That will also grow unemployment to further transnational corporations to take charge over automation and cheap slave labor, especially in the Third World. They gain control in a process. First, they create substandard products to be replaced in a short span of time. Second, all quality, low-cost products and inventions are suppressed, so the population is forced to rely on the multinationals.
We have witnessed many lies about free trade greatly. Global and free trade just favors multinational companies and their products are a poorer quality and selection. As a result, many consumers find it difficult to trust producers, including small firms (these firms make good production, but they are overshadowe d by the larger industries).
Environmental land labor standards are never equally applied to many foreign countries, since the multinationals will lower these standards in Third World lands.
We have a $130 + billion deficit with China and a $100 billion deficit with India. This is neither free nor fair trade. One of the biggest falsehoods about the scourge of free trade is that greater production rights are given to Third World Nations to help the poor.
It only benefits the transnational with monopolies forming and the exploitation leading to almost all slave labor destroying most small businesses that can’t compete on that scale.
Millions of jobs from the U.S.A. manufacturing industry are shipped overseas because of this (i.e. stock-options or outsourcing and George W. Bush even called fast-food jobs manufacturing jobs in February 2004 which is silly).
Buying imported mass produced products seldom help small/medium-sized businesses, small manufacturers, or the average person in the countries they’re in. Most products in free trade are made by corrupt international corporations. Buying their products will only increase their power and make countries less independent. Folks are also deceived into giving aid to the Third World will improve the poor of those nations.
Sources dictate that more misdirected aid does more harm than good. That aid must be directly p roperly to improve the Third World. It’s true that some aid will help the poor, but most of it benefits the multinationals in developing corrupt governments (they in turn are made rich to misuse the money in wrong things such as funding wars). Aid enhances the World Bank (for fake bailouts) over the economic policies of many societies.
Then you have Privatization. Privatization is when a nation sells off its local assets (or publicly owned assets and services) to corrupt multinationals (internationalists=Illuminati) that control the price anyway.
They will regularly sell out to merge with world government so world government will be in control of all assets. Countries sell their assets to pay off their debts. If they don't surrender their assets and sovereignty to the power, they won't receive any trading loans. Big Government + Select Corporations = Privatization.
This is not capitalism at all, feudalis m since only a few dozen families control all of the economies of the world. Feudalism=the concentration of more and more wealth in the hands of the few then the elimination or the stifling of the many.
Deregulation is similar to this. Deregulation has the government to cap the retail price of electricity [below market prices], prevent long-term contracts, prevent long-term contracts, and limit the construction of new power plants by numerous regulations of all types of energy (this restricts free enterprise and benefits oligarchic companies like Enron, etc.) leading to massive blackouts.
Competition is great between companies that should be encouraged, but you can't have monopolies. Transnational Corporations are monopolies plan and simple. Central banks are gaining regulation over governments.
The U.S. dollar is depressed very low. Therefore, free trade and globalization=one world economy, one world currency, and total global government rule with only multinational corporations doing the buying and the selling.
NAFTA
President Clinton signed Executive Order 13107 or “The Implementation of Human Rights Treaties” which claimed that U.N. Human Rights standards must be enforeced in the U.S. We all want human rights, but to allow a Communist organization to force its laws unto us is morally repugnant.
The same description goes for NAFTA. President George H. W. Bush has pushed for NAFTA as early as the early 1990’s. It was President Bill Clinton who passed the oppressive NAFTA or the North American Free Trade Agreement at 1994. Fake conservative Rush Limbaugh supported NAFTA as well.
The Bilderberg Group seeks in their long-term agenda to expand NAFT throughout the Western Hemisphere to create the American Union like the EU ending sovereignty of countries and further establishing NATO as the UN’s world army. FTAA was formed as a NAFTA expansion. FTAA is made up of 34 countries in the Western Hemisphere (except Cuba).
Even David Rockefeller stated on tape that he wants the American Union by 2005. One of the main problems with NAFTA is that it gives too much corporate investment rights and protections that are unprecedented in scope and power.
NAFTA allows corporations to travel and sue the national government of a NAFTA country in secret tribunals if they feel that a regulation of a government decision effects the investment in conflict with new NAFTA rights.
If a corporation wins the suit, the taxpayer of the “losing” NAFTA nation must foot the bill. Article 1100, 1102, and 1105 of NAFTA deals with the issues with the World Bank and the U.N. handling many of the cases.
NAFTA very well may represent the 1st of a 10 Super Nation States or 10 Regions of the N.W.O. This was all prophesized at Daniel 17:7-8. Bill Lambert told Cutting Edge Ministries in a secret meeting about NAFTA and the 10 occult leaders of the 10 superpowers to form the N.W.O.
WTO
The WTO is one of the scourges of mankind and the world. The WTO is not a republican institution having 132-member nations.
The rules they exhort are by and for multinational corporations with even inside access for various negotiations. The U.S. Trade Representative relies on 17 “Industry Advisor Committees” to provide input into trade negotiations without the environment, human rights, consumer, and labor groups.
Request for information are denied and the proceedings are held in secret. The WTO strips human rights and solutions to labor and human rights abuses are ignored.
One rule is that it’s illegal for the government to ban a product based on the way it’s produced (i.e. even slave/child labor). Another one is that government within the WTO can’t take into account the behavior of companies that do business with various dictatorships like China or Burma.
They are anti- environment by even desiring to end a regulation of the Clean Air Act [a common sense law] and that would require foreign and domestic products to have cleaner gasoline illegal. The WTO wants to weaken Endangered Species Act on shrimp and sea turtles. The WTO also strips our national sovereignty.
The WTO has a supranational court system to economically enforce sanctions on nations that won’t comply with the WTO’s rulings.
The WTO has unselected, unaccountable, corporate backed government refusing to respect national government. Even an ex-head said: “We are uniting the constitution of a single global economy.” (Regnato Ruggier, former WTO-Director-General, Italy).
The Tyrannical Gestapo
S.S. Stormtroppers at
Miami, Florida
This was never reported to the mainstream media for the purpose of covering up Bush's tactics to crush protest. This was an ultimate disgrace to liberty and an example of evil brutality. Most of the protestors were peacefully held from November 17-21, 2003.
They restricted their Constitutional Rights. Those rights are the First Amendment (Freedom of Speech, Assembly, and Press), 4th Amendment (Protection against search and seizure without probable cause), 8th Amendment (Excessive bail shall not be imposed), and the 14th Amendment (Equal Protection under the Law).
Even John Timoneny, the Miami Chief of Police blatantly said that "If they engage in lawful activity, we're going arrest them" at November 20, 2003 making him a tyrant. The demonstrators rightfully opposed the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americans) with its evil multinational corporations and plots for Globalization (New World Order).
The police told the NY Times that there were about 8,000-10,000 protestors. The riot police shot at people with "pepper gas and rubber bullets 120 miles an hour into a small crowd of surrounded resisters who they could have contained." (Constitutional Rights Suspended in Miami by Frederick Sweet)
One woman signaled the "V" sign and was shot with a rubber bullet point blank for no reason. There were video footage of bloody faces and an officer shooting a woman with rubber bullets and even chasing away a young man kneeling in silent prayer.
Tanks were used as well. The Independent Media Center had 20 journalists with videotapes, but they weren't immediately shown to the public and 4 broadcast-quality video cameras were confiscated or broken as said by Sara Kendall (one of the journalists). The federal government gave $8.5 million to help Miami with security and Homeland SSecurity.
Civil rights organizations, the A.F.L. -C.I.O. and Amnesty International, a human rights organization, seeks an investigation of the whole incident. They truthfully outlined individuals arrested for no reason or cause , denial of restrooms, water and phones.
They are carrying a fake "war on terrorism" but a real "war on dissent" arbitrary assigning a label of "terrorist" for all those who disagree with the Bush Kingdom stripping our Constitutional rights as American citizens.
This is John Ashcoft's Gestapo dream for America. He's an enemy of freedom along with George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Cheney, Condolezza Rice, Paul Wolofowitz, and the rest within the Bush administration full of neo-con and Trotskyites.
By TruthSeeker24
March 25, 2004 A.D.
11:19 am. EST
SOLA SCRIPTURA
SOLA FIDE
SOLA GLORIA DEO
SOLA GRATIA
SOLA CHRISTO
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
SEMPER LIBER
Saturday, October 17, 2009
Tuesday, October 13, 2009
Katrina
Updates on New Orelans & Huricane Katrina plus Hurricane Rita
Katrina was the most destructive hurricane in American history. At around 500 people were found dead and possibly thousands may have been deceased as well. Now is the time for the truth to be known. The truth is that the majority of the responsibility lies with FEMA and the federal government. I know that we can't rely on the federal government to save us, but the government committed crimes that must be exposed. James McCanney and other researchers view Katrina as a weather modification program (perfectly by Nikola Tesla and used by the U.S. government for decades), which seems more possible as more evidence comes in. Jim McCanney is one expert who recorded the government’s power to control the weather. The purpose of all this is for the Globalists to use New Orleans and the Gulf Coast region as an excuse to allow foreign troops in, have gun confiscation, further federalized the region, create martial law, and make more government control of this nation in trying to create the New World Order. FEMA is not even an elected body and it wasn’t even created under Constitutional law by Congress. It does have the power to suspend laws, more entire population, transportation control, and suspend the Constitution in certain times.
The truth is that the New Orleans district of the U.S. Amry Corps of Engineers had a $17.2 million reduction in federal funding for fiscal year 2006. The Army Corps sought $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans, while the White House cut the request to $40 million (the Congress only approved $42.2 million less than half of the agency’s request). Bush cut funding for federal disaster relief funds. FEMA reported that a hurricane was one of the 3 most likely disasters in the U.S. at early 2001 including a terror attack inside New York City. Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, LA, said that the money was moved unto the President’s budget to handle Homeland SSecuity and the war on terror (New Orleans Times-Picaynue reported this in June 8, 2004). FEMA ran the Army Corps of Engineers and 15 other agencies (confirmed by Lt. General Carl A. Strock, commander of the corps).
William Jefferson Clinton cut 98 flood control projects and he cut a $120 million hurricane project approved by the Army Corps of Engineers. Bob Sheets, a meteorologists warned of a catasphoric storm sent to New Orelans since the 1970’s. When the hurricane hit, FEMA made tons of mistakes. FEMA cut communication lines, restricted food and aid, didn’t activate their Hurricane Plan when Katrina struck, had inspectors who had poor training (reported by the Florida Sun Sentinel), had criminals on its staff, and other problems. With adequate funding and a more stable leeve system, the tradegy can be averted. Locals and other witnesses report that a barge broke the levee or even explosives destroyed the leeves on purpose (as was done in the 1927 Mississippi disaster). National Guard troops are in Louisiana and martial law was declared in New Orleans at August 30, 2005, Tuesday. The troops were given shoot to kill orders against those deemed “criminals” when most of the people there weren’t looting (Col. David Hunt confirmed that a lot of the looting was done by out of state agent provacteur street gangs). Even some police were looting proven by MSNBC.
Advanced technology like unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) have thermal imaging technology to detect the body heat of storm survivors. New Orleans also allowed gun confiscation of even law-abiding citizens in the first time of American history. This is violation of the Second Amendment and the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 forbidding the military to engage in civilian activity unto American citizens. Some troops forced people out of their homes and this anti-Bill of Rights atmosphere is treason. The mayor and governor have made mistakes (i.e. buses, etc.), but they can’t be totally blamed. Even the governor asked the National Gaurd to be activated before Katrina hit landfall. New Orleans was already a federalized city, so the buck stops at FEMA and the feds.
Some police have a shirt with a flaming skull, representing death. Some of the military treat the citizens as “insurgents” and “refuges” not citizens, which is immoral. The first 3 organizations on the government recommended donation list were the American Red Cross, Pat Robertson, and the B’nai B’rith. FEMA treat the evacuees negativity in terms of by registering them, giving them ID cards, and preventing them from leaving internment camps. As for race, we need to becareful to embrace extremists. One set of extremists want to lie and blame black people totally for all of the looting and rioting occuring placing blacks (not all black people were looting in N.O.) in general as inferior. The other set of extremists want to blame white people for everything. It's obvious that Bush and his cronies could care less about the poor. They are in the Elite and most of the real Elite consider the poor less than human and "useless eaters."
I've thought about Kanye West's comments for a while and I agree with a lot of what he has to say. Many in the media never made a distinction between a few roiting people (some were black and some were not black) and the majority of black people not being involved in that madness. The Bush family tree is known to have colloborated with the Rockefellers, Harrimans, DuPonts, Fords, etc. for decades (all known for their racist population control, racist segregation, and eugenics policies. Many folks in those families aided the Nazis. Prescott Bush was a member of Planned Parenthood, a terrorist, murderous organization) As for George W. Bush not caring for black people, Bush certainly cares for black people that agree with him like Condy Rice and many others.
He certainly doesn't agree or could care less about real black interests in general. Take a look at the 2000 election where 58,000 votes were cancelled out in Florida. Greg Palast in his research has proven that and the Bush/bin Laden family connection, so that isn't a conspiracy theory. It is a conspiracy fact indeed. Henry Kissinger support a document in the 1970's in support of eliminating populations in the Third World and the PNAC document list the use of biological/chemical weapons against genotypes (which can be interpretated as races). It's no secret that the real Elite hate the black race and wants us dead literally. Not all black people or all white people are racists and we need to love one another. We need to develop new, real solutions to solve the continual racial problems in this country. Bush Sr. prides himself as giving money to the UNCF, but most people don't realize that in 1969, George H. W. Bush was on a panel in support of the decrease of the black population when the black population never grew into high levels in the 20th-21st centuries at all. Barbara Bush yet again is bashing the poor saying that they are better off after the storm than before when people drown and disease are infested in the water with many toxic chemicals. What planet is she from?
With a Nazi supporting grandfather of Bush 41, Prescott Bush, and a man who loves population control efforts on people of color like George H. W. Bush, what can you expect from a corrupt family tree. I wouldn't support the Red Cross, because Alex Jones, Conspiracy Planet, WINGTV and other sources haved exposed their money restriction unto the people. That doesn’t mean that the low-level Red Cross workers are all evil, but it does mean that the people running it are acting in corruption. Scholar Len Horowitz exposed Red Cross were aware of the Nazis atrocities in WWII. The Jewish Virtual Library website goes as far as saying that the Red Cross betrayed them during WWII. Freemason Jean Henri Dunant created the Red Cross in 1864. The Red Cross is a symbol of the Rose Croix (a degree in Scottish Rite Freemasonry and related to the Rosicurcians and Prieure de Sion). You can give aid to local areas in churches and organization that will directly send money and supplies to the people affected. Rita is another hurricane headed for the Texas coastline (within the range of Galvenston and Houston). Rita is a Category 5 Hurricane now. A Number of oil referines are in that region and I heard from CNBC that a man said that 25% of American oil capacity could be destroyed if the Hurricane destroyed those oil referinies in the Texas area. 2tuff from the Unhived Forum showed me something new. If Rita hits land on Saturday (as the Weathermen say), then the date is 9/24/2005=9+24=33. 33 is the highest degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry. 9+2+4+2+0+0+5=22 (11*2=22. 11 is one of the Master Numbers of 11, 22, 33). We need to be viligant not fear mongering about "terrorists."
By Timothy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phantomtruth/message/7952
Katrina was the most destructive hurricane in American history. At around 500 people were found dead and possibly thousands may have been deceased as well. Now is the time for the truth to be known. The truth is that the majority of the responsibility lies with FEMA and the federal government. I know that we can't rely on the federal government to save us, but the government committed crimes that must be exposed. James McCanney and other researchers view Katrina as a weather modification program (perfectly by Nikola Tesla and used by the U.S. government for decades), which seems more possible as more evidence comes in. Jim McCanney is one expert who recorded the government’s power to control the weather. The purpose of all this is for the Globalists to use New Orleans and the Gulf Coast region as an excuse to allow foreign troops in, have gun confiscation, further federalized the region, create martial law, and make more government control of this nation in trying to create the New World Order. FEMA is not even an elected body and it wasn’t even created under Constitutional law by Congress. It does have the power to suspend laws, more entire population, transportation control, and suspend the Constitution in certain times.
The truth is that the New Orleans district of the U.S. Amry Corps of Engineers had a $17.2 million reduction in federal funding for fiscal year 2006. The Army Corps sought $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans, while the White House cut the request to $40 million (the Congress only approved $42.2 million less than half of the agency’s request). Bush cut funding for federal disaster relief funds. FEMA reported that a hurricane was one of the 3 most likely disasters in the U.S. at early 2001 including a terror attack inside New York City. Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, LA, said that the money was moved unto the President’s budget to handle Homeland SSecuity and the war on terror (New Orleans Times-Picaynue reported this in June 8, 2004). FEMA ran the Army Corps of Engineers and 15 other agencies (confirmed by Lt. General Carl A. Strock, commander of the corps).
William Jefferson Clinton cut 98 flood control projects and he cut a $120 million hurricane project approved by the Army Corps of Engineers. Bob Sheets, a meteorologists warned of a catasphoric storm sent to New Orelans since the 1970’s. When the hurricane hit, FEMA made tons of mistakes. FEMA cut communication lines, restricted food and aid, didn’t activate their Hurricane Plan when Katrina struck, had inspectors who had poor training (reported by the Florida Sun Sentinel), had criminals on its staff, and other problems. With adequate funding and a more stable leeve system, the tradegy can be averted. Locals and other witnesses report that a barge broke the levee or even explosives destroyed the leeves on purpose (as was done in the 1927 Mississippi disaster). National Guard troops are in Louisiana and martial law was declared in New Orleans at August 30, 2005, Tuesday. The troops were given shoot to kill orders against those deemed “criminals” when most of the people there weren’t looting (Col. David Hunt confirmed that a lot of the looting was done by out of state agent provacteur street gangs). Even some police were looting proven by MSNBC.
Advanced technology like unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) have thermal imaging technology to detect the body heat of storm survivors. New Orleans also allowed gun confiscation of even law-abiding citizens in the first time of American history. This is violation of the Second Amendment and the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 forbidding the military to engage in civilian activity unto American citizens. Some troops forced people out of their homes and this anti-Bill of Rights atmosphere is treason. The mayor and governor have made mistakes (i.e. buses, etc.), but they can’t be totally blamed. Even the governor asked the National Gaurd to be activated before Katrina hit landfall. New Orleans was already a federalized city, so the buck stops at FEMA and the feds.
Some police have a shirt with a flaming skull, representing death. Some of the military treat the citizens as “insurgents” and “refuges” not citizens, which is immoral. The first 3 organizations on the government recommended donation list were the American Red Cross, Pat Robertson, and the B’nai B’rith. FEMA treat the evacuees negativity in terms of by registering them, giving them ID cards, and preventing them from leaving internment camps. As for race, we need to becareful to embrace extremists. One set of extremists want to lie and blame black people totally for all of the looting and rioting occuring placing blacks (not all black people were looting in N.O.) in general as inferior. The other set of extremists want to blame white people for everything. It's obvious that Bush and his cronies could care less about the poor. They are in the Elite and most of the real Elite consider the poor less than human and "useless eaters."
I've thought about Kanye West's comments for a while and I agree with a lot of what he has to say. Many in the media never made a distinction between a few roiting people (some were black and some were not black) and the majority of black people not being involved in that madness. The Bush family tree is known to have colloborated with the Rockefellers, Harrimans, DuPonts, Fords, etc. for decades (all known for their racist population control, racist segregation, and eugenics policies. Many folks in those families aided the Nazis. Prescott Bush was a member of Planned Parenthood, a terrorist, murderous organization) As for George W. Bush not caring for black people, Bush certainly cares for black people that agree with him like Condy Rice and many others.
He certainly doesn't agree or could care less about real black interests in general. Take a look at the 2000 election where 58,000 votes were cancelled out in Florida. Greg Palast in his research has proven that and the Bush/bin Laden family connection, so that isn't a conspiracy theory. It is a conspiracy fact indeed. Henry Kissinger support a document in the 1970's in support of eliminating populations in the Third World and the PNAC document list the use of biological/chemical weapons against genotypes (which can be interpretated as races). It's no secret that the real Elite hate the black race and wants us dead literally. Not all black people or all white people are racists and we need to love one another. We need to develop new, real solutions to solve the continual racial problems in this country. Bush Sr. prides himself as giving money to the UNCF, but most people don't realize that in 1969, George H. W. Bush was on a panel in support of the decrease of the black population when the black population never grew into high levels in the 20th-21st centuries at all. Barbara Bush yet again is bashing the poor saying that they are better off after the storm than before when people drown and disease are infested in the water with many toxic chemicals. What planet is she from?
With a Nazi supporting grandfather of Bush 41, Prescott Bush, and a man who loves population control efforts on people of color like George H. W. Bush, what can you expect from a corrupt family tree. I wouldn't support the Red Cross, because Alex Jones, Conspiracy Planet, WINGTV and other sources haved exposed their money restriction unto the people. That doesn’t mean that the low-level Red Cross workers are all evil, but it does mean that the people running it are acting in corruption. Scholar Len Horowitz exposed Red Cross were aware of the Nazis atrocities in WWII. The Jewish Virtual Library website goes as far as saying that the Red Cross betrayed them during WWII. Freemason Jean Henri Dunant created the Red Cross in 1864. The Red Cross is a symbol of the Rose Croix (a degree in Scottish Rite Freemasonry and related to the Rosicurcians and Prieure de Sion). You can give aid to local areas in churches and organization that will directly send money and supplies to the people affected. Rita is another hurricane headed for the Texas coastline (within the range of Galvenston and Houston). Rita is a Category 5 Hurricane now. A Number of oil referines are in that region and I heard from CNBC that a man said that 25% of American oil capacity could be destroyed if the Hurricane destroyed those oil referinies in the Texas area. 2tuff from the Unhived Forum showed me something new. If Rita hits land on Saturday (as the Weathermen say), then the date is 9/24/2005=9+24=33. 33 is the highest degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry. 9+2+4+2+0+0+5=22 (11*2=22. 11 is one of the Master Numbers of 11, 22, 33). We need to be viligant not fear mongering about "terrorists."
By Timothy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phantomtruth/message/7952
Monday, October 12, 2009
Old Words
Almost the end of 2004.
The year is finally closing near 2005. Some things keep on going on continuing to plague the Earth. Certainly a war is going on. Its not actually with this fake war on terror, but a war for our liberty, our sovereignty, our lives, and our eternal souls. Even if the solider who criticized Donald Rumsfeld [Nixon ally, shook Saddams hand and allowed chemical weapons to be sent to Iraq in the 1980s] for not providing enough trooper was coached by a reporter, it is still a legitimate question. Not only are our troops being ill-supplied in this illegal adventure, but the government is using Saddams Black Scorpions (Iraqi commanders) to supposedly liberate Iraq.
Right now around 1,280 American G.I.s are dead with over 100,000 Iraqi civilians killed. With the battle in Fullujah, journalist Dahr Jamail, Information Clearing House Site, and other sources claim that poison gases were used in warfare which violate legitimate law therefore making it a war crime. It all smells bad and the whole purpose of this configuration was never to institute freedom as they see fit, but ram freedom down their throats as we see fit. Victor Thorns wisdom on the dollar and euro makes since. The U.S. for decades have had a devalued dollar that is decreasing in value. America is trying its best to at least preserve the dollar and when Saddam began to promote the euro (this currency is gaining prominence in the past 4 years) in 2000, the elite certainly became more apt for war in Iraq.
The Bush Gestapo wants to control the infrastructure of the country to steal their resources, so Iraq can be a launching pad for more aggressive policies in the Middle East with Iran and Syria or even Saudi Arabia on the horizon. As for the 2004 Election, there is much evidence to derive a conclusion of fraud. Many states had exit polls results that were opposite of the real results in Nevada and Ohio. In Ohio, many results in one county exceed the amount of registered, eligible voters. There are accounts of fraud with Diebold in the mix of it. Plus many leaders of Diebold are blatantly connected with the Bush administration not to mention that all of the provisional ballots havent been all recorded in several state.
This is even worse than 2000 since the evidence is so obvious in a short period of time, yet the mainstream news media labels any elaborate investigation into this as fear-mongering. This is truth-telling not acting as a cover-up artist in the events of 9/11, Secret Societies, Iraq, etc. like Faux News, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, mainstream talk radio, etc. are doing day by day.
New cabinet members are proposed by Bush like Spelling, Gonzales, and Carlos Gutierrez. I have no problem with the Bush White House having a large amount of minorities in it, but policy is what matters in helping our country. Most of the Bush choices are yes-men and women to his extreme standard in fulfilling the American dream. Especially with Bernard Kerik proposed to become head of Homeland Security. Even the 9/11 Commission called that his actions after 9/11 were deplorable and Kerik was the one who was part of building the Iraqi police force.
This guys idol is Oliver North [Knight of Malta] who illegally helped the Nicaraguan Contras back in the 1980s. Many of the Contra and the CIA delivered cocaine to America resulting in the crack epidemic in American society. Kerik might be even worse than Ridge by his strong arm demeanor. The time is now to focus more on truth than fantasy. Purely a job of my is to have allegiance to God alone.
By TruthSeeker24 (Timothy)
December 10, 2004
3:33 pm. EST.
SOLA SCRIPTURA
SOLA FIDE
SOLA GLORIA DEO
SOLA CHRISTO
SOLA GRATIA
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
SEMPER LIBER
RESURRECTION
7 CITIES
NORFOLK
VIRGINIA BEACH
HAMPTON
SUFFOLK
NEWPORT NEWS
SUFFOLK
CHESAPEAKE
OTHERS:
POQUOSON
SMITHFIELD
SOUTHHAMPTON COUNTY
JAMESTOWN
YORKTOWN
NORTHHAMTPON COUNTY
ISLE OF WRIGHT
WILLIAMSBURG
EASTERN SHORE
ALL OF NORTHEASTERN NORTH CAROLINA
LANCASTER
_______________________
False Patriotism
A new era is upon us. Fake Philosophies develop constantly. Patriotism is simply a basic love and respect for ones country. The neo-cons completely distorted that definition to something sick.
Their Nazi interpretation is that if you dissent with any of the policies of King George (whether good or bad), we will instill a classification of abiding a lack of patriotism towards you. This is utter nonsense, but many folks lost jobs and are fear-ridden by not strongly standing up opposing the government committing wrong operations.
Jeremy Glick, ex-Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, Max Cleland, writers, actors, musicians, politicians from their Left and the Right, and others have suffered under these fraudulent attacks. Waving a flag, following the President regardless, singing some songs doesnt make a human a patriot.
A patriot is a state of mind and someone who hold high regard for liberty and the Bill of Rights (these are laws God gave to us directly).
Thats what ought to be cherished not unlimited submission or compromise. We need not fear or intimidation, but strength for the individual, honor for the country to improve itself, preserve equality, and sustain our prosperity and rights.
To be a patriot, you must really learn what is a patriot, not through phony impersonations, but stable connections to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To criticize our government is patriotic. To go out and call for legitimate, radical changes are patriotic.
To oppose neo-conservative madmen like Wolofwitz, Firth, Perle, Kristol, Rumsfeld, Bush, etc. is definitely patriotic.
Years pass now and Im wiser to acknowledge the sacrifice of our veterans, but at the same time, it inspires me to focus on the challenges ahead. Its never easy being in constant struggle through all of the lies, stereotypes, and adversity.
Let adversity transform into persistence compelling dreams of a better freedom to fruition.
The same folks who wear a flag (solely a symbol) almost like a god would be scared to death when confronted with the real truth of President George W. Bushs real globalist agenda.
Bush is not a patriot in disregarding our Constitution, instilling a false sense of suspicion for this fake war on terrorism, squeezing our middle class jobs by the incessant sponsoring of NAFTA and the WTO, tackling the illegal and immoral war inside Iraq, and other cases.
Battling against this police state, to speak your mind publicly, to resist illegal government policy, to remind ourselves of the rights of our forefathers died for of every race, to maintain a spirit of honor and love is the highest form of patriotism to me.
By TruthSeeker24
SOLA SCRIPTURA
SOLA FIDE
SOLA GLORIA DEO
SOLA GRATIA
SOLA CHRISTO
SIC SEMPER TRYANNIS
SEMPER LIBER
March 16, 2004 A.D.
8:59 am. EST
The year is finally closing near 2005. Some things keep on going on continuing to plague the Earth. Certainly a war is going on. Its not actually with this fake war on terror, but a war for our liberty, our sovereignty, our lives, and our eternal souls. Even if the solider who criticized Donald Rumsfeld [Nixon ally, shook Saddams hand and allowed chemical weapons to be sent to Iraq in the 1980s] for not providing enough trooper was coached by a reporter, it is still a legitimate question. Not only are our troops being ill-supplied in this illegal adventure, but the government is using Saddams Black Scorpions (Iraqi commanders) to supposedly liberate Iraq.
Right now around 1,280 American G.I.s are dead with over 100,000 Iraqi civilians killed. With the battle in Fullujah, journalist Dahr Jamail, Information Clearing House Site, and other sources claim that poison gases were used in warfare which violate legitimate law therefore making it a war crime. It all smells bad and the whole purpose of this configuration was never to institute freedom as they see fit, but ram freedom down their throats as we see fit. Victor Thorns wisdom on the dollar and euro makes since. The U.S. for decades have had a devalued dollar that is decreasing in value. America is trying its best to at least preserve the dollar and when Saddam began to promote the euro (this currency is gaining prominence in the past 4 years) in 2000, the elite certainly became more apt for war in Iraq.
The Bush Gestapo wants to control the infrastructure of the country to steal their resources, so Iraq can be a launching pad for more aggressive policies in the Middle East with Iran and Syria or even Saudi Arabia on the horizon. As for the 2004 Election, there is much evidence to derive a conclusion of fraud. Many states had exit polls results that were opposite of the real results in Nevada and Ohio. In Ohio, many results in one county exceed the amount of registered, eligible voters. There are accounts of fraud with Diebold in the mix of it. Plus many leaders of Diebold are blatantly connected with the Bush administration not to mention that all of the provisional ballots havent been all recorded in several state.
This is even worse than 2000 since the evidence is so obvious in a short period of time, yet the mainstream news media labels any elaborate investigation into this as fear-mongering. This is truth-telling not acting as a cover-up artist in the events of 9/11, Secret Societies, Iraq, etc. like Faux News, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, mainstream talk radio, etc. are doing day by day.
New cabinet members are proposed by Bush like Spelling, Gonzales, and Carlos Gutierrez. I have no problem with the Bush White House having a large amount of minorities in it, but policy is what matters in helping our country. Most of the Bush choices are yes-men and women to his extreme standard in fulfilling the American dream. Especially with Bernard Kerik proposed to become head of Homeland Security. Even the 9/11 Commission called that his actions after 9/11 were deplorable and Kerik was the one who was part of building the Iraqi police force.
This guys idol is Oliver North [Knight of Malta] who illegally helped the Nicaraguan Contras back in the 1980s. Many of the Contra and the CIA delivered cocaine to America resulting in the crack epidemic in American society. Kerik might be even worse than Ridge by his strong arm demeanor. The time is now to focus more on truth than fantasy. Purely a job of my is to have allegiance to God alone.
By TruthSeeker24 (Timothy)
December 10, 2004
3:33 pm. EST.
SOLA SCRIPTURA
SOLA FIDE
SOLA GLORIA DEO
SOLA CHRISTO
SOLA GRATIA
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
SEMPER LIBER
RESURRECTION
7 CITIES
NORFOLK
VIRGINIA BEACH
HAMPTON
SUFFOLK
NEWPORT NEWS
SUFFOLK
CHESAPEAKE
OTHERS:
POQUOSON
SMITHFIELD
SOUTHHAMPTON COUNTY
JAMESTOWN
YORKTOWN
NORTHHAMTPON COUNTY
ISLE OF WRIGHT
WILLIAMSBURG
EASTERN SHORE
ALL OF NORTHEASTERN NORTH CAROLINA
LANCASTER
_______________________
False Patriotism
A new era is upon us. Fake Philosophies develop constantly. Patriotism is simply a basic love and respect for ones country. The neo-cons completely distorted that definition to something sick.
Their Nazi interpretation is that if you dissent with any of the policies of King George (whether good or bad), we will instill a classification of abiding a lack of patriotism towards you. This is utter nonsense, but many folks lost jobs and are fear-ridden by not strongly standing up opposing the government committing wrong operations.
Jeremy Glick, ex-Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, Max Cleland, writers, actors, musicians, politicians from their Left and the Right, and others have suffered under these fraudulent attacks. Waving a flag, following the President regardless, singing some songs doesnt make a human a patriot.
A patriot is a state of mind and someone who hold high regard for liberty and the Bill of Rights (these are laws God gave to us directly).
Thats what ought to be cherished not unlimited submission or compromise. We need not fear or intimidation, but strength for the individual, honor for the country to improve itself, preserve equality, and sustain our prosperity and rights.
To be a patriot, you must really learn what is a patriot, not through phony impersonations, but stable connections to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To criticize our government is patriotic. To go out and call for legitimate, radical changes are patriotic.
To oppose neo-conservative madmen like Wolofwitz, Firth, Perle, Kristol, Rumsfeld, Bush, etc. is definitely patriotic.
Years pass now and Im wiser to acknowledge the sacrifice of our veterans, but at the same time, it inspires me to focus on the challenges ahead. Its never easy being in constant struggle through all of the lies, stereotypes, and adversity.
Let adversity transform into persistence compelling dreams of a better freedom to fruition.
The same folks who wear a flag (solely a symbol) almost like a god would be scared to death when confronted with the real truth of President George W. Bushs real globalist agenda.
Bush is not a patriot in disregarding our Constitution, instilling a false sense of suspicion for this fake war on terrorism, squeezing our middle class jobs by the incessant sponsoring of NAFTA and the WTO, tackling the illegal and immoral war inside Iraq, and other cases.
Battling against this police state, to speak your mind publicly, to resist illegal government policy, to remind ourselves of the rights of our forefathers died for of every race, to maintain a spirit of honor and love is the highest form of patriotism to me.
By TruthSeeker24
SOLA SCRIPTURA
SOLA FIDE
SOLA GLORIA DEO
SOLA GRATIA
SOLA CHRISTO
SIC SEMPER TRYANNIS
SEMPER LIBER
March 16, 2004 A.D.
8:59 am. EST
Al-Qaeda
The Truth on Al-Qaeda
Al-Qaeda is nothing more than a government creation sent as a boogeyman to scare people, so submission to the governments policies would be easy to achieve. The Ancient Mystery Religions of Egypt, Babylon, India, and other Gentile nations were the presecucors of all Secret Societies including the Masonic Muslim Brotherhood. Many Muslim Secret Societies existed from the Middle Ages like the Assassins, Sufis, and Ismalis. All of them used concepts related to the Illuminati. Napoleon invaded Egypt and the Masons in his army contacted the remnants of the Ismali Grand Lodge and set up the Egyptian Rite Freemasonry when they returned to Europe.
Freemasonry have a firm tie with Muslim extremist groups. Jamal al-Din al-Afghani was living in Egypt and is known as the founder of the Salafiyya movement to end British imperialismto end British imperialism plus called for modernization for the Muslim world. Mohammed Adbhuh was his most famous disciple and was another Freemason. Hasan al-Banna created the Muslim Brotherhood and it is Masonic by its pyramidal structure, secrecy, charity, etc. but it was exclusively for Muslims to join. Sayed Qutb, another Freemason, joined the Brotherhood. Dr. John Coleman and other scholars said that the British globalists exploitated and also controlled the Muslim Brotherhood to control the Middle East, oppress Arab citizens, and exploit their resources like oil. Osama in the late 1970's-1990's was a CIA asset and the CIA funded him to fight Soviet Communists and other groups.
Osama's teacher was Muhammad Qutb, another member of the Masonic Muslim Brotherhood. al-Qaeda's role is a executioner of globalist policies to stir the people in fighting this fake "war on terror" like the fake "Cold War." [since both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. back then were funded by Rockefeller and othe industrailists] Leonid Shebarshin, ex-chief of the Soviet Foreign Intelligence Service, who heads the Russian National Economic Security Service consulting company said that al-Qaeda is a myth. In fact, a Congressional report had the U.S. funding al-Qaeda-related groups in battling against the Serbs during the 1990s.
The PhD. Henry Makow is a hero in explaining the al-Qaeda myth so greatly. Ive emailed him before and hes a nice man from Canada fighting against the New World Order. Peter Goodgame, another expert says that Osama is a product of the Muslim Brotherhood controlled by British globalists. The hierarchy of al-Qaeda has cells with a capstone on the top similar to Freemasonry. Frank Morales have shown thats its a known historical fact that the Pentagon used P2OG to instigate terror attacks, then fight to defeat the terrorists.
By Timothy
Al-Qaeda is nothing more than a government creation sent as a boogeyman to scare people, so submission to the governments policies would be easy to achieve. The Ancient Mystery Religions of Egypt, Babylon, India, and other Gentile nations were the presecucors of all Secret Societies including the Masonic Muslim Brotherhood. Many Muslim Secret Societies existed from the Middle Ages like the Assassins, Sufis, and Ismalis. All of them used concepts related to the Illuminati. Napoleon invaded Egypt and the Masons in his army contacted the remnants of the Ismali Grand Lodge and set up the Egyptian Rite Freemasonry when they returned to Europe.
Freemasonry have a firm tie with Muslim extremist groups. Jamal al-Din al-Afghani was living in Egypt and is known as the founder of the Salafiyya movement to end British imperialismto end British imperialism plus called for modernization for the Muslim world. Mohammed Adbhuh was his most famous disciple and was another Freemason. Hasan al-Banna created the Muslim Brotherhood and it is Masonic by its pyramidal structure, secrecy, charity, etc. but it was exclusively for Muslims to join. Sayed Qutb, another Freemason, joined the Brotherhood. Dr. John Coleman and other scholars said that the British globalists exploitated and also controlled the Muslim Brotherhood to control the Middle East, oppress Arab citizens, and exploit their resources like oil. Osama in the late 1970's-1990's was a CIA asset and the CIA funded him to fight Soviet Communists and other groups.
Osama's teacher was Muhammad Qutb, another member of the Masonic Muslim Brotherhood. al-Qaeda's role is a executioner of globalist policies to stir the people in fighting this fake "war on terror" like the fake "Cold War." [since both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. back then were funded by Rockefeller and othe industrailists] Leonid Shebarshin, ex-chief of the Soviet Foreign Intelligence Service, who heads the Russian National Economic Security Service consulting company said that al-Qaeda is a myth. In fact, a Congressional report had the U.S. funding al-Qaeda-related groups in battling against the Serbs during the 1990s.
The PhD. Henry Makow is a hero in explaining the al-Qaeda myth so greatly. Ive emailed him before and hes a nice man from Canada fighting against the New World Order. Peter Goodgame, another expert says that Osama is a product of the Muslim Brotherhood controlled by British globalists. The hierarchy of al-Qaeda has cells with a capstone on the top similar to Freemasonry. Frank Morales have shown thats its a known historical fact that the Pentagon used P2OG to instigate terror attacks, then fight to defeat the terrorists.
By Timothy
Wednesday, September 9, 2009
The Lord's Supper
Mass:
1). Hebrews 9:22 Sacrifice in a bloody manner not in an unbloody manner as utilized in mass. Christs body cant possess opposite properties at the same time. It cant be glorified in Heaven and at the same time be humbled on earth under the appearance of bread and wine. Christ is infinite and can do it if he wants to, but he cant go against his orderly nature or against the word of God in his behavior or actions (i.e. God cant lie, etc).
2). Luke 22:19 Do this in remembrance me is said by Christ (Communion is only a remembrance.) If Christ was actually present, then we cant remember him as He has bid us to do. You cant remember one who is actually physically there. You can remember one who is not physically there and who leaves token (simple objects of regular, non-divine bread and wine) that remind us of him. In fact the word communion means fellowship or memorial in Greek not Eucharist or the change of substances into the flesh and body of Christ. The stream of truth is all there.
3). Luke 23:40-43 The thief on the cross went to heaven without taking the Mass.
4). 1 Cor. 11:23-24 Do this in remembrance of me is said by Christ again to emphasis the symbolic meaning of communion.
5). John 20:30-31 You have no life in Christ without the Eucharist (or youre not saved if you dont take the Eucharist) is promoted if taken literally, but you have life by believing on Christ and his blood utilized on the cross for the salvation of all mankind not by drinking Christs blood and eating Christs flesh neither bread and wine.
6). Hosea 8:6 If a priest tries to create out of mere bread the physical body plus soul and divinity of God, it isnt God. Also, the mass claims the priests can create God from physical properties since they claim the wine and bread converts to the flesh and blood of Christ being God. This is extreme blasphemy. Wow. God cant be forced unto Earth by man or be created by man. God is unique, uncreated, and from everlasting to everlasting.
7). Hebrews 10:4 Jesus sacrifice was a one-time event with no repeats like the mass service. See also Heb. 9:28, 1 Peter 3:18.
. Rev. 1:7 Christ will come down physically when every eye will see him. In mass, every human eye doesnt witness him .See also Rev. 1:17,18.
9). Mat. 26:26-28 Jesus was present in communion. How can he be in that situation transubstantiated his flesh and blood in that area when hes present. Cannibalism comes into play by Catholicisms interpretation. Also what will happen if a mouse or another animal eats it. Can an animal eat God? The whole thing is revolting and ridiculous by using common sense and logic.
10). Hebrews 7:27 Not to be repeated daily involving his sacrifice and he died once for all. When a body is in parts, the parts cannot be individually separated to be equal to the whole. Not only is it declared the body of Christ is complete in each of the millions of wafers handled by the priests worldwide, but if each single wafer was broken into a 1,00 parts, each single part is declared to be a whole Christ. This cannot be said of a true human body.
11). 1 Cor. 14:9 The Bible forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue (i.e. Latin) Note: Until recently that Catholicism has changed this.
12). Romans 10:9/ Acts 16:30-31 Confession of faith not eating flesh and blood leads to eternal life.
13). Mark 16:19, Romans 8:33-34, Col. 3:1 Christ is presently at the right hand of God not coming physically downward to a church by a priests command worldwide in millions of churches.
14). Hebrews 10:12 Jesus made one sacrifice for sins and is at the right hand of God the Father.
15). John 19:30 Jesus said, It is finished making his all-sufficient, single sacrifice done and over forever. See also 1 Sam. 15:22 saying that Following the Lord is better than sacrifice (a man-made false sacrifice). Christ made his one, only sacrifice on the cross. It is finished.
16). Hebrews 9:11-15 Jesus Christ entered once for all.
17). John 13:18 Jesus referred to the communion elements as mere bread after being blessed not transformed bread and wine into flesh and blood yet alone his flesh and blood since Jesus Christ was present and he didnt cut himself or performed any flesh and blood miracle at that scene.
1 . Acts 15:10/ Acts 21:25 Forbids eating blood used in religious services. See also Leviticus 3:17, 7:26-27, Acts 15:28-29, plus Gen. 9:3-4.
19). 1 Cor. 27-29 Unbelievers shouldnt take communion; therefore taking communion isnt required for salvation.
20). Psalm 16:10 Corruption wont happen to the Messiah, but that happens to the Host after the service. (Also contradicts Newtons 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, Daltons Atomic Theory, etc making the Eucharist scientifically and religiously impossible). Also the early church in consensus didnt agree with transubstantiation anyway. Examples include this:
Now heres great and thorough history on this subject. Enjoy. Polycarp in all of his literature didnt mention a word on transubstantiation or the Eucharist being Christ on an object. One of the earliest works outside the Bible discussing NT rules was the Didache. In chapter 9, it only calls communion eucharistic thanksgiving and spiritual food and drink not a wafer which suddenly transforming into the bread and body of Christ. Justin Marytr in First Apology Chapter 66 and 67 plus his Dialogue with Typho Chapter 41 and 70 only calls communion a remembrance or thanksgiving simply. Tertullian throughout his Against Maricon Book called the Lords Supper a figure and the spirit profits not the flesh. According to the Protestant scholar William Webster, the strictly symbolic view of Zwingli, which is similar to that expressed by Eusebius" (p. 122).
To the "symbolic view" list, Webster adds Theodoret, Serapion, Jerome, Athanasius, Ambrosiaster, Macarius of Egypt, and Eustathius of Antioch. Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Cyprian in his Epistle 62 , Augustine in his Reply to Fastus the Manichean at Book 20 plus Fastus 6:5 and his Fastus 20:18,20, John Chrysostom, Sedulius, Cladius Scotus, Rabanus Marus, Albert of Gaul in the 700s, John Erigena Scotus of the 800s, John Wycliffe, Ratrummus of the 800s, Berengarius of the 1000s, Paulicians of the 600s, Petrobussians, Waldensians, Anabaptists like Michael Sattler or Menno Simons of the 1500s, Bohemian Brethren and other people didnt believe that bread and wine by a priests power could create Almighty God. They called it symbols, spiritual, or symbolic of Christs actions on the cross involving humans salvation.
Many Reformers like John Knox, William Tyndale, John Laski, Ulrich Zwingli, Aonio Palerio, John Hooper, John Calvin, Theodore Beza, John Rogers, and others before and after the 1500s for 2,000 yrs of Christianity who didnt mention a word on it, and they conceived of the Lords Supper just a commemoration of Jesus Christ finishing work on the cross. They all knew it was a memorial or symbolic of what he did on the cross. That alone refutes Catholicisms whole game plan on the Eucharist. One early person Catholics have used to validate their view of the Eucharist is a quotation by Ignatius in the 2nd century describing the Eucharist. Now that quote refers to him rebuking Gnostic heretics who denied Christ having existed in the flesh, etc. It could be a response by Ignatius to those heretics. Also the word Eucharist in the early church means simply thanksgiving from the Greek not transubstantiation or a transformation of the Host, etc. The usage of the object in the thanksgiving was simply bread in archaeological evidence not a circular wafer disk in the early church. Its very possible to assume he meant thanksgiving in communion instead of a literal flesh and blood transformation ceremony.
Today in the 21st century, Catholic apologists say that Luther believed in the Real Presence, therefore the Reformation was a fluke. The truth is that Luther did believed in the so-called Real Presence, but he denied transubstantiation in his Babylonish Captivity of the Church (1520) and other literature. He did believe in consubstantiation or that Christs blood and body was present along with bread and wine in communion. Zwingle, Tyndale, Rogers, Peter Martyr, John Knox, and other Protestant Reformers denied both transubstantiation and consubstantiation. Luther always denied the majority of Catholic doctrines like the infallibility of the pope, purgatory, auricular confession, veneration of images, papacy, etc.
The Reformers like all humans werent perfect in every aspect of their doctrinal/ religious concepts and Gods word is sufficient enough to refute the Catholic lie of the transforming Host used in a church service. This is Catholic apologetic desperation yet again. John 6 shows no mention of the Mass or the Lords Supper. The Lords Supper is mentioned after John 6 not before or during the chapter. John 6 just describes the method of salvation using metaphors like bread, light, door, etc simply. Thus, the historical record is in favor of Protestants and all Bible-believers not Catholics since the consensus of the early church all didnt subscribe to the lying dogma of transubstantiation.
21). 2 Cor. 5:16 Paul said Christ physically isnt here in a communion service. Paul said Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh, yea though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Paul said we know him no more in the sense of his physical disappearance in heaven.
22). Romans 10:16 Dont wish to bring Christ down from heaven in a ceremony like the Mass.
23). Mt. 15:17 Whatever comes in someones mouth whether if its the wafer or otherwise will enter the digestive system and leave out of the body. So, after eating the wafer, what would happen to it after 8 hrs? Too rough huh.
24). John 6:40/ John 6:63/ John 6:32 Spiritual meaning is displayed and belief count (No mention of communion throughout John 6).
25). 2 Samuel 23:14-25 It shows where the water poured unto the ground before the Lord is called blood. This was figurative language, which was put so forcefully to recognize the risks that had been taken to get this water in the first place. No one takes it literally just like communion elements were not literal flesh and blood.
26). Romans 6:9-10 Jesus died once, resurrected once, and is at the right hand of the Father.
27). A). John 8:35(bread of life)
B). John 11:25/ John 10:11 (I am the resurrection and the life)
C). John 8:12 (light of the world)
D). John 10:1 (I am the true vine)
E). John 10:9 (door)
F). John 14:6 (I am the way, truth, and the life)
These six metaphors show symbols Christ used to convey meanings of salvation, etc. Jesus didnt say This has become or is turned into my body and blood, which in Greek is touto gignetai, but the Greek phrase touto esti meaning this represents or stands for. Its figurative terms simply.
2 . Luke 19:9/ Luke 22:15-20 Zaccheus was saved before communion; so taking the Eucharist isnt required for salvation. Also, the elderly, sick, crippled, paralyzed, terminally ill, bed-ridden, etc couldnt possibly take the Eucharist, but only have repentance to be saved without taking the Host. That is even more evidence the Eucharist not necessary for salvation.
29). Luke 22:15/ Exodus 12:4 The symbolic Jewish feast of Passover eludes to the symbolic meaning of communion in the NT and Jesus was also present in a Passover service in the NT. Jesus also in John 6 spoke in the present tense not in the future, before communion ever happened. It refers to salvation presently.
30). Romans 5:19/ Eph. 1:17 Christ alone saves and not participating in a mass ceremony. There is also Daltons Atomic Theory. That means that atoms can neither be created nor destroyed. If the bread and wines atoms can disappear, where the bread and wine go after consecration? It cant be gone; neither can Gods flesh from heaven be placed to earth, which contradict the laws of science.
31). A). Jesus multiplied loaves and fishes (Mt. 14:17-21, 15:34-38, John 6:11-13)
B). Jesus turns the water into wine (John 2:1-11)
C). Jesus Raised Lazarus and the widows son from the dead. (John 11:1-44, Luke 7:12-16).
D). Jesus is raised from the dead by his own power (Mt. 28:1-10, Luke 24:14-32, 1 Cor. 15:1-
E). Jesus healed 2 blind men (Matthew 9:27-31).
F). Jesus walks on water (Mt. 14:22-32, Mark 6:47-52, John 6:1-4)
The following miracles have one thing in common. They have a great deal of physical evidence and many people witnessed these miracles with eyewitness proof from Gods word and other sources. In contrast, The Eucharist has no physical evidence since the contents of wine and bread stay and taste the same before and after the ritual. The contents disintegrate making it not divine or perfect. See also Luke 1:3 showing that senses are presented as furnishing infallible proofs. In Luke 16:31, miracles must be subjected to Gods word for confirmation. You test miracles by the scriptures and not vice versa. Any miracle that contradicts Gods word is rejected. The burden of proof rests on the miracle not Gods word.
32). 1 Cor. 11:24-26 Jesus said until he come meaning that Christ isnt present in the Mass physically and Lord has ascended on high on 33 AD.
33). Luke 22:29 The bread and wine are symbols which help one to remember Christ. Even 2 of the greatest Cardinals in the Roman Catholic Church (Cajetan and Bellarmine) both expressively confessed that the doctrine of Transubstantiation was not founded on the word of God, but received from the Church. That means it cant definitely be taken literally.
34). I Peter 3:22 Jesus is at the right hand of God presently not repeating his sacrifice physically in man-made rituals daily.
35). Mt. 24:30/ Acts. 1:11 Rev. 1:7 The physical return of Christ will not happen repeatedly by a Host, but come while everyone will see or notice him. His whole physical body must not be presented or displayed in a wafer. Note: A different priest in different churches worldwide uses a different wafer and cup of wine for usage. Those objects are nowhere being consistent or equal making it not divine.
36). 1 Cor. 15:50 Flesh and blood cant inherit Gods kingdom. The wafer shows later corruption and cant influence the incorruption of Christ being divine not the Victim.
37). Leviticus 6:30 The offering of Christ upon the cross was a sin offering. According to this verse the sin offering was not to be eaten afterwards. The Mass and Christs sacrifice are obviously not the same.
3 . Acts 7:48 Jesus, who is God, doesnt dwell in temples or churches that issue mass ceremonies but is in heaven now in his bodily form.
39). Ephesians 4:10/Eph. 2:6 Transubstantiation contradicts the biblical doctrine of incarnation and ascension. Jesus has only one body, and its located in heaven. Jesus body is therefore not in thousands of tabernacles and churches around the world.
40). Heb. 6:6 The Mass is similar to crucifying Christ over and over again since Catholics claim Jesus is present in a wafer. Thats symbolically undoing Calvary and Christs resurrection.
41). Gen. 14:18 Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine. The verb brought forth is used hundreds of times in the OT, but never is linked to any ritual, sacrifice, especially a transubstantiated substance or object.
42). Mt. 24:23-27,30 /Luke 17:23-24 Someone claiming Christ is here whether in the Host or anywhere without biblical confirmation of every eye seeing him, biblical prophecy, etc is a liar. That (host/wafer) is a false sign and a lying wonder to claim that Christ is present in a host.
43). Exodus 20:4-5 Eucharistic adoration violates the 2nd commandment. We are to never worship or bow before religiously to anything (including the wafer which isnt GOD but an object) but God himself only. See also Isaiah 42:8 and Acts 17:29.
44). Ecc. 5:1-2 God is in heaven and humans who are alive exist on Earth. The Eucharist cannot be God, since Christ presently resides in heaven and his 2nd coming hasnt occurred yet.
45). 1 Thes. 4:16 This prophecy explicitly says that when Christ comes back in the physical form, the voice of the archangel will sound and the dead in Christ will rise first and the end-times will happen. There cant be a 5 or 1,000,000,0000 comings of Christ in Mass but only 2 physical comings of Christ as simply shown from the scriptures.
46). John 6:51-53 These verses are one of the most controversial verses in the Bible. This verse says to eat Christs flesh and blood to have eternal life, etc. But hold on, that is a literal interpretation and in the Bible Christ used a symbolic and literal interpretation of the scriptures. Now in v. 63 he gives his true meaning along with in v. 40 and v. 35. We can only give a symbolic designation for v.51-53 because the Scriptures throughout the Bible mention salvation without eating or drinking Christs blood.
Its all by his spirit not eating and drinking. Thats an action therefore a work and man is not justified by any of his/her works or deeds but by his grace through faith. Not to mention that if we follow the Catholic interpretation, it would contradiction tons of Biblical concepts of his 2nd coming, salvation, idolatry, scientific laws, etc. Christs blood is real flesh and real blood because he existed in the flesh. His blood was used on the cross for the remission of sins and his flesh was used on the flesh for all mans salvation. He was using the words eating and drinking to convey meaning. He contrasts the Jewish manna and his flesh and blood to show that point. The physical manna was eaten and the Jews died yet his flesh and blood (belief or internalizing him) is eaten for our salvation. His spiritual bread and blood does that alone not normal flesh, blood, or food. Normal flesh, blood, and food will decay as time goes on, but his flesh will not see corruption and his blood is very powerful for the salvation of all men.
Note in that chapter that there is no evidence of the changing of substances in John 6 neither of his disciples eating any flesh or blood in those instances. Its all symbolic and spiritual. Christ said to eat and drink in terms of internalizing him and his doctrine. Of course thats true and his flesh will remain forever as Gods word said. Christ has all Life and has the right to say by eating and drinking his flesh and blood (in a symbolic way) you have eternal life.
47). John 6:64-71 Now Catholics claim that this section claims that some of the people left because they rejected the Eucharist or literal blood and body of Christ, but that isnt the case at all. They just rejected of what he said in terms of our means of salvation only. Christ knew who would leave and let those who would reject him go. In those verses, there is no mentioning of the Catholic Eucharist neither of Christ showing his flesh and blood for people to eat and drink or the changing of wine and bread into his flesh and blood. Note that Catholics forgotten that in v. 68-69, Peter acknowledge that the method of salvation is by belief on Christ. Christ didnt rebuke him at all but in the end of John 6 tells of Judas as one who is a devil. The context is spelled out by comparing scripture with scripture. Catholics distort scripture to validate their beliefs.
48 . Mark 14:22-24 Jesus showed the disciples that to eat and drink wine to tell of his salvation plans and reality. Note that Christ said in v.22 . And as they did eat, Jesus took break, and blessed it, and brake it Christ broke the bread throughout the verses so there is no sign of change into the flesh and blood of Christ. To see a changing of substances and Christ commanding them to eat it is cannibalism plain and simple, but that isnt the case at all. There is no literal flesh and blood, but literal bread and wine to represent literal truths since Christ presently in that scene gave the disciples literal bread and wine. Jesus was the perfect example of this meaning. He represented himself in those simple verses. He gave his flesh by dying on the cross and his blood on the cross was for the remission of sins. Catholicism is ambiguous, because first she says you have to be baptized and youre saved, then communion, and other procedures to receive full status. She will never in her decrees or doctrine acknowledge that Christ alone is used for salvation.
1). Hebrews 9:22 Sacrifice in a bloody manner not in an unbloody manner as utilized in mass. Christs body cant possess opposite properties at the same time. It cant be glorified in Heaven and at the same time be humbled on earth under the appearance of bread and wine. Christ is infinite and can do it if he wants to, but he cant go against his orderly nature or against the word of God in his behavior or actions (i.e. God cant lie, etc).
2). Luke 22:19 Do this in remembrance me is said by Christ (Communion is only a remembrance.) If Christ was actually present, then we cant remember him as He has bid us to do. You cant remember one who is actually physically there. You can remember one who is not physically there and who leaves token (simple objects of regular, non-divine bread and wine) that remind us of him. In fact the word communion means fellowship or memorial in Greek not Eucharist or the change of substances into the flesh and body of Christ. The stream of truth is all there.
3). Luke 23:40-43 The thief on the cross went to heaven without taking the Mass.
4). 1 Cor. 11:23-24 Do this in remembrance of me is said by Christ again to emphasis the symbolic meaning of communion.
5). John 20:30-31 You have no life in Christ without the Eucharist (or youre not saved if you dont take the Eucharist) is promoted if taken literally, but you have life by believing on Christ and his blood utilized on the cross for the salvation of all mankind not by drinking Christs blood and eating Christs flesh neither bread and wine.
6). Hosea 8:6 If a priest tries to create out of mere bread the physical body plus soul and divinity of God, it isnt God. Also, the mass claims the priests can create God from physical properties since they claim the wine and bread converts to the flesh and blood of Christ being God. This is extreme blasphemy. Wow. God cant be forced unto Earth by man or be created by man. God is unique, uncreated, and from everlasting to everlasting.
7). Hebrews 10:4 Jesus sacrifice was a one-time event with no repeats like the mass service. See also Heb. 9:28, 1 Peter 3:18.
. Rev. 1:7 Christ will come down physically when every eye will see him. In mass, every human eye doesnt witness him .See also Rev. 1:17,18.
9). Mat. 26:26-28 Jesus was present in communion. How can he be in that situation transubstantiated his flesh and blood in that area when hes present. Cannibalism comes into play by Catholicisms interpretation. Also what will happen if a mouse or another animal eats it. Can an animal eat God? The whole thing is revolting and ridiculous by using common sense and logic.
10). Hebrews 7:27 Not to be repeated daily involving his sacrifice and he died once for all. When a body is in parts, the parts cannot be individually separated to be equal to the whole. Not only is it declared the body of Christ is complete in each of the millions of wafers handled by the priests worldwide, but if each single wafer was broken into a 1,00 parts, each single part is declared to be a whole Christ. This cannot be said of a true human body.
11). 1 Cor. 14:9 The Bible forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue (i.e. Latin) Note: Until recently that Catholicism has changed this.
12). Romans 10:9/ Acts 16:30-31 Confession of faith not eating flesh and blood leads to eternal life.
13). Mark 16:19, Romans 8:33-34, Col. 3:1 Christ is presently at the right hand of God not coming physically downward to a church by a priests command worldwide in millions of churches.
14). Hebrews 10:12 Jesus made one sacrifice for sins and is at the right hand of God the Father.
15). John 19:30 Jesus said, It is finished making his all-sufficient, single sacrifice done and over forever. See also 1 Sam. 15:22 saying that Following the Lord is better than sacrifice (a man-made false sacrifice). Christ made his one, only sacrifice on the cross. It is finished.
16). Hebrews 9:11-15 Jesus Christ entered once for all.
17). John 13:18 Jesus referred to the communion elements as mere bread after being blessed not transformed bread and wine into flesh and blood yet alone his flesh and blood since Jesus Christ was present and he didnt cut himself or performed any flesh and blood miracle at that scene.
1 . Acts 15:10/ Acts 21:25 Forbids eating blood used in religious services. See also Leviticus 3:17, 7:26-27, Acts 15:28-29, plus Gen. 9:3-4.
19). 1 Cor. 27-29 Unbelievers shouldnt take communion; therefore taking communion isnt required for salvation.
20). Psalm 16:10 Corruption wont happen to the Messiah, but that happens to the Host after the service. (Also contradicts Newtons 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, Daltons Atomic Theory, etc making the Eucharist scientifically and religiously impossible). Also the early church in consensus didnt agree with transubstantiation anyway. Examples include this:
Now heres great and thorough history on this subject. Enjoy. Polycarp in all of his literature didnt mention a word on transubstantiation or the Eucharist being Christ on an object. One of the earliest works outside the Bible discussing NT rules was the Didache. In chapter 9, it only calls communion eucharistic thanksgiving and spiritual food and drink not a wafer which suddenly transforming into the bread and body of Christ. Justin Marytr in First Apology Chapter 66 and 67 plus his Dialogue with Typho Chapter 41 and 70 only calls communion a remembrance or thanksgiving simply. Tertullian throughout his Against Maricon Book called the Lords Supper a figure and the spirit profits not the flesh. According to the Protestant scholar William Webster, the strictly symbolic view of Zwingli, which is similar to that expressed by Eusebius" (p. 122).
To the "symbolic view" list, Webster adds Theodoret, Serapion, Jerome, Athanasius, Ambrosiaster, Macarius of Egypt, and Eustathius of Antioch. Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Cyprian in his Epistle 62 , Augustine in his Reply to Fastus the Manichean at Book 20 plus Fastus 6:5 and his Fastus 20:18,20, John Chrysostom, Sedulius, Cladius Scotus, Rabanus Marus, Albert of Gaul in the 700s, John Erigena Scotus of the 800s, John Wycliffe, Ratrummus of the 800s, Berengarius of the 1000s, Paulicians of the 600s, Petrobussians, Waldensians, Anabaptists like Michael Sattler or Menno Simons of the 1500s, Bohemian Brethren and other people didnt believe that bread and wine by a priests power could create Almighty God. They called it symbols, spiritual, or symbolic of Christs actions on the cross involving humans salvation.
Many Reformers like John Knox, William Tyndale, John Laski, Ulrich Zwingli, Aonio Palerio, John Hooper, John Calvin, Theodore Beza, John Rogers, and others before and after the 1500s for 2,000 yrs of Christianity who didnt mention a word on it, and they conceived of the Lords Supper just a commemoration of Jesus Christ finishing work on the cross. They all knew it was a memorial or symbolic of what he did on the cross. That alone refutes Catholicisms whole game plan on the Eucharist. One early person Catholics have used to validate their view of the Eucharist is a quotation by Ignatius in the 2nd century describing the Eucharist. Now that quote refers to him rebuking Gnostic heretics who denied Christ having existed in the flesh, etc. It could be a response by Ignatius to those heretics. Also the word Eucharist in the early church means simply thanksgiving from the Greek not transubstantiation or a transformation of the Host, etc. The usage of the object in the thanksgiving was simply bread in archaeological evidence not a circular wafer disk in the early church. Its very possible to assume he meant thanksgiving in communion instead of a literal flesh and blood transformation ceremony.
Today in the 21st century, Catholic apologists say that Luther believed in the Real Presence, therefore the Reformation was a fluke. The truth is that Luther did believed in the so-called Real Presence, but he denied transubstantiation in his Babylonish Captivity of the Church (1520) and other literature. He did believe in consubstantiation or that Christs blood and body was present along with bread and wine in communion. Zwingle, Tyndale, Rogers, Peter Martyr, John Knox, and other Protestant Reformers denied both transubstantiation and consubstantiation. Luther always denied the majority of Catholic doctrines like the infallibility of the pope, purgatory, auricular confession, veneration of images, papacy, etc.
The Reformers like all humans werent perfect in every aspect of their doctrinal/ religious concepts and Gods word is sufficient enough to refute the Catholic lie of the transforming Host used in a church service. This is Catholic apologetic desperation yet again. John 6 shows no mention of the Mass or the Lords Supper. The Lords Supper is mentioned after John 6 not before or during the chapter. John 6 just describes the method of salvation using metaphors like bread, light, door, etc simply. Thus, the historical record is in favor of Protestants and all Bible-believers not Catholics since the consensus of the early church all didnt subscribe to the lying dogma of transubstantiation.
21). 2 Cor. 5:16 Paul said Christ physically isnt here in a communion service. Paul said Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh, yea though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Paul said we know him no more in the sense of his physical disappearance in heaven.
22). Romans 10:16 Dont wish to bring Christ down from heaven in a ceremony like the Mass.
23). Mt. 15:17 Whatever comes in someones mouth whether if its the wafer or otherwise will enter the digestive system and leave out of the body. So, after eating the wafer, what would happen to it after 8 hrs? Too rough huh.
24). John 6:40/ John 6:63/ John 6:32 Spiritual meaning is displayed and belief count (No mention of communion throughout John 6).
25). 2 Samuel 23:14-25 It shows where the water poured unto the ground before the Lord is called blood. This was figurative language, which was put so forcefully to recognize the risks that had been taken to get this water in the first place. No one takes it literally just like communion elements were not literal flesh and blood.
26). Romans 6:9-10 Jesus died once, resurrected once, and is at the right hand of the Father.
27). A). John 8:35(bread of life)
B). John 11:25/ John 10:11 (I am the resurrection and the life)
C). John 8:12 (light of the world)
D). John 10:1 (I am the true vine)
E). John 10:9 (door)
F). John 14:6 (I am the way, truth, and the life)
These six metaphors show symbols Christ used to convey meanings of salvation, etc. Jesus didnt say This has become or is turned into my body and blood, which in Greek is touto gignetai, but the Greek phrase touto esti meaning this represents or stands for. Its figurative terms simply.
2 . Luke 19:9/ Luke 22:15-20 Zaccheus was saved before communion; so taking the Eucharist isnt required for salvation. Also, the elderly, sick, crippled, paralyzed, terminally ill, bed-ridden, etc couldnt possibly take the Eucharist, but only have repentance to be saved without taking the Host. That is even more evidence the Eucharist not necessary for salvation.
29). Luke 22:15/ Exodus 12:4 The symbolic Jewish feast of Passover eludes to the symbolic meaning of communion in the NT and Jesus was also present in a Passover service in the NT. Jesus also in John 6 spoke in the present tense not in the future, before communion ever happened. It refers to salvation presently.
30). Romans 5:19/ Eph. 1:17 Christ alone saves and not participating in a mass ceremony. There is also Daltons Atomic Theory. That means that atoms can neither be created nor destroyed. If the bread and wines atoms can disappear, where the bread and wine go after consecration? It cant be gone; neither can Gods flesh from heaven be placed to earth, which contradict the laws of science.
31). A). Jesus multiplied loaves and fishes (Mt. 14:17-21, 15:34-38, John 6:11-13)
B). Jesus turns the water into wine (John 2:1-11)
C). Jesus Raised Lazarus and the widows son from the dead. (John 11:1-44, Luke 7:12-16).
D). Jesus is raised from the dead by his own power (Mt. 28:1-10, Luke 24:14-32, 1 Cor. 15:1-
E). Jesus healed 2 blind men (Matthew 9:27-31).
F). Jesus walks on water (Mt. 14:22-32, Mark 6:47-52, John 6:1-4)
The following miracles have one thing in common. They have a great deal of physical evidence and many people witnessed these miracles with eyewitness proof from Gods word and other sources. In contrast, The Eucharist has no physical evidence since the contents of wine and bread stay and taste the same before and after the ritual. The contents disintegrate making it not divine or perfect. See also Luke 1:3 showing that senses are presented as furnishing infallible proofs. In Luke 16:31, miracles must be subjected to Gods word for confirmation. You test miracles by the scriptures and not vice versa. Any miracle that contradicts Gods word is rejected. The burden of proof rests on the miracle not Gods word.
32). 1 Cor. 11:24-26 Jesus said until he come meaning that Christ isnt present in the Mass physically and Lord has ascended on high on 33 AD.
33). Luke 22:29 The bread and wine are symbols which help one to remember Christ. Even 2 of the greatest Cardinals in the Roman Catholic Church (Cajetan and Bellarmine) both expressively confessed that the doctrine of Transubstantiation was not founded on the word of God, but received from the Church. That means it cant definitely be taken literally.
34). I Peter 3:22 Jesus is at the right hand of God presently not repeating his sacrifice physically in man-made rituals daily.
35). Mt. 24:30/ Acts. 1:11 Rev. 1:7 The physical return of Christ will not happen repeatedly by a Host, but come while everyone will see or notice him. His whole physical body must not be presented or displayed in a wafer. Note: A different priest in different churches worldwide uses a different wafer and cup of wine for usage. Those objects are nowhere being consistent or equal making it not divine.
36). 1 Cor. 15:50 Flesh and blood cant inherit Gods kingdom. The wafer shows later corruption and cant influence the incorruption of Christ being divine not the Victim.
37). Leviticus 6:30 The offering of Christ upon the cross was a sin offering. According to this verse the sin offering was not to be eaten afterwards. The Mass and Christs sacrifice are obviously not the same.
3 . Acts 7:48 Jesus, who is God, doesnt dwell in temples or churches that issue mass ceremonies but is in heaven now in his bodily form.
39). Ephesians 4:10/Eph. 2:6 Transubstantiation contradicts the biblical doctrine of incarnation and ascension. Jesus has only one body, and its located in heaven. Jesus body is therefore not in thousands of tabernacles and churches around the world.
40). Heb. 6:6 The Mass is similar to crucifying Christ over and over again since Catholics claim Jesus is present in a wafer. Thats symbolically undoing Calvary and Christs resurrection.
41). Gen. 14:18 Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine. The verb brought forth is used hundreds of times in the OT, but never is linked to any ritual, sacrifice, especially a transubstantiated substance or object.
42). Mt. 24:23-27,30 /Luke 17:23-24 Someone claiming Christ is here whether in the Host or anywhere without biblical confirmation of every eye seeing him, biblical prophecy, etc is a liar. That (host/wafer) is a false sign and a lying wonder to claim that Christ is present in a host.
43). Exodus 20:4-5 Eucharistic adoration violates the 2nd commandment. We are to never worship or bow before religiously to anything (including the wafer which isnt GOD but an object) but God himself only. See also Isaiah 42:8 and Acts 17:29.
44). Ecc. 5:1-2 God is in heaven and humans who are alive exist on Earth. The Eucharist cannot be God, since Christ presently resides in heaven and his 2nd coming hasnt occurred yet.
45). 1 Thes. 4:16 This prophecy explicitly says that when Christ comes back in the physical form, the voice of the archangel will sound and the dead in Christ will rise first and the end-times will happen. There cant be a 5 or 1,000,000,0000 comings of Christ in Mass but only 2 physical comings of Christ as simply shown from the scriptures.
46). John 6:51-53 These verses are one of the most controversial verses in the Bible. This verse says to eat Christs flesh and blood to have eternal life, etc. But hold on, that is a literal interpretation and in the Bible Christ used a symbolic and literal interpretation of the scriptures. Now in v. 63 he gives his true meaning along with in v. 40 and v. 35. We can only give a symbolic designation for v.51-53 because the Scriptures throughout the Bible mention salvation without eating or drinking Christs blood.
Its all by his spirit not eating and drinking. Thats an action therefore a work and man is not justified by any of his/her works or deeds but by his grace through faith. Not to mention that if we follow the Catholic interpretation, it would contradiction tons of Biblical concepts of his 2nd coming, salvation, idolatry, scientific laws, etc. Christs blood is real flesh and real blood because he existed in the flesh. His blood was used on the cross for the remission of sins and his flesh was used on the flesh for all mans salvation. He was using the words eating and drinking to convey meaning. He contrasts the Jewish manna and his flesh and blood to show that point. The physical manna was eaten and the Jews died yet his flesh and blood (belief or internalizing him) is eaten for our salvation. His spiritual bread and blood does that alone not normal flesh, blood, or food. Normal flesh, blood, and food will decay as time goes on, but his flesh will not see corruption and his blood is very powerful for the salvation of all men.
Note in that chapter that there is no evidence of the changing of substances in John 6 neither of his disciples eating any flesh or blood in those instances. Its all symbolic and spiritual. Christ said to eat and drink in terms of internalizing him and his doctrine. Of course thats true and his flesh will remain forever as Gods word said. Christ has all Life and has the right to say by eating and drinking his flesh and blood (in a symbolic way) you have eternal life.
47). John 6:64-71 Now Catholics claim that this section claims that some of the people left because they rejected the Eucharist or literal blood and body of Christ, but that isnt the case at all. They just rejected of what he said in terms of our means of salvation only. Christ knew who would leave and let those who would reject him go. In those verses, there is no mentioning of the Catholic Eucharist neither of Christ showing his flesh and blood for people to eat and drink or the changing of wine and bread into his flesh and blood. Note that Catholics forgotten that in v. 68-69, Peter acknowledge that the method of salvation is by belief on Christ. Christ didnt rebuke him at all but in the end of John 6 tells of Judas as one who is a devil. The context is spelled out by comparing scripture with scripture. Catholics distort scripture to validate their beliefs.
48 . Mark 14:22-24 Jesus showed the disciples that to eat and drink wine to tell of his salvation plans and reality. Note that Christ said in v.22 . And as they did eat, Jesus took break, and blessed it, and brake it Christ broke the bread throughout the verses so there is no sign of change into the flesh and blood of Christ. To see a changing of substances and Christ commanding them to eat it is cannibalism plain and simple, but that isnt the case at all. There is no literal flesh and blood, but literal bread and wine to represent literal truths since Christ presently in that scene gave the disciples literal bread and wine. Jesus was the perfect example of this meaning. He represented himself in those simple verses. He gave his flesh by dying on the cross and his blood on the cross was for the remission of sins. Catholicism is ambiguous, because first she says you have to be baptized and youre saved, then communion, and other procedures to receive full status. She will never in her decrees or doctrine acknowledge that Christ alone is used for salvation.
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